Bring the troops home - NOW!

[kralspaces]

Where is all that hope and change? Nothing has changed on the war front. The wars have only escalated. Let the Iraqis’ govern themselves. Let the Afghans’ govern themselves. Bring our troops (and mercenaries) home. We left Viet Nam and the world did not end. I for one am very tired of all this world intervention. Who are we to judge what is best for others. We just need to protect our own nation, at our own borders.

[Scott]

It seems like I remember hearing somthing about ending the wars in all those campaign promises. Not so easy when you the guy eh Mr. President? You thought it was so simple when you were on the outside looking in. By the way, you're a crappy president.

[Daisy]

Kral, if we don't fight the Muslim terrorists on their turf, we would have to fight them here more than we do now. They won't say, "Well, they are leaving us alone, so we'll leave them alone."

If we let them build their strength in Iraq and Afghanistan, they'll gain momentum and power. They'll recruit more jihadists and send them to the US. Islam commands Muslims to infiltrate into the non-Muslim countries - their goal is to exterminate all the infidels. Look at how many European countries they have moved into already - it's shocking!

It's a lot better to have our troops fighting these holy war crazies where they live than to have to fight them here. By helping the Iraqis and Afghans, we're protecting ourselves, as well.

That's my feeling on it, anyway.

God Bless Our Troops who are fighting against these terrorists and protecting our country from them!!

[Neil]

Islam commands Muslims to infiltrate into the non-Muslim countries - their goal is to exterminate all the infidels. Look at how many European countries they have moved into already - it's shocking!


But that's what the Europeans did to this Country centuries ago. Move in, and either convert the locals to christianity or kill them.
Don't get me wrong Daisy, I hate terrorists. I had a friend murdered by terrorists back in the 70's. He was just having a drink in his local pub when Irish terrorists detonated a bomb, killing 5 and wounding 65.

[oladcock]

Krals, "Who are we to judge what is best for others. We just need to protect our own nation, at our own borders."

As an ex-service man, I agree within reason. Isolationism however can get us into trouble as well but possibly not as much trouble as politicians micro-managing a war. Not acting beyond our borders and we'll eventually wind up like Israel with rockets and morters being lobbed over our borders. We could/would become trade isolated. China as we speak is spreading their influence into other countries to procure long term resources. What do you think they intend to do with those resources?

Personally, if a people in a country desires freedom from tyranny, we should help as much as possible but that doesn't necessarily mean militarily but could in certain circumstances.

I don't like the political correctness we're getting into. I don't think it'll work in the long run. Bad actors such as the Taliban and Iran, we should tell them to change their ways, if they don't, take out their leadership with our high-tech toys..Step back and see what comes of it. If they go the same route again, do it again....They'll eventually figure it out. If a sniper shoots at one of our troops, take out the whole city block and inform the "civilians" this will happen every time if THEY don't do something to stop it. If I knowingly have a crack house next door, and myself or my family get hurt/killed as the result of that activity, that's MY fault for not doing something about it. It's not the police, it's not the politicians, it's my fault for not putting in the politicians that'll do the job as a first resort and direct action myself as a second.

This idea of limiting civilians casualties, I don't buy it. I believe every human is born free with free will. If they willingly submit to tyranny, then they get the government they deserve and the consequences of that governments behavior toward others.

You say we shouldn't interfere, I say we should interfere every chance we get on behalf of people seeking freedom. If it wasn't for France interfering around 1800, you wouldn't have the freedoms you have today. Iraq.....They now have the opportunity to live as a free people. Will they take it? Probably not...They as many other countries have bred out free and independent thinking through killing those that did and or brow beating and indoctrinating the remainder. Humans are violent and some desire to control others by any means possible. Always have, always will. If we EVER stop resisting that tendency from our dog catcher to the president, to the leaders of other nations, we'll lose it or pay a very high price to get it back...O.L.

[Daisy]

But that's what the Europeans did to this Country centuries ago. Move in, and either convert the locals to christianity or kill them.

That doesn't mean we should just sit back and allow it to happen..........again. :no3:

[oladcock]

Man! Lots of folks posting at the same time! LOL

"But that's what the Europeans did to this Country centuries ago. Move in, and either convert the locals to christianity or kill them."

Yep, and they did the very same thing to each other, tribe against tribe. WE ARE HUMANS, it's what we do. We can choose not to but the tribe over the hill or across the water may not. You got a choice, submit or fight...

As for pushing our beliefs and values on others??? They want to push theirs on us, do they not? Again, submit or fight. I choose to fight.....O.L.

[Daisy]

Man! Lots of folks posting at the same time! LOL

Yep, opinions are like, uh, noses - everybody's got one. :smk3:

[Daisy]

NOBODY likes war, but there have always been and will always be those who want to take away the freedoms and rights of others - forcibly, if they have too.

In this country, we do NOT allow those tyrants and bullies to accomplish their goals. If that means keeping our troops present and active in other countries in order to stop the madmen of the world, then that's what we have to do.

I would be much happier with everyone just getting along and minding their own business, but that's just not how the world works. :ohwell:

Thank goodness for all those brave men and women who sign up to defend this country against the tyrants and bullies of the world - without them, we would be in a world of hurt and misery.

[pdc]

FYI. Obama has been mostly true to his stated intentions regarding both Iraq and Afghanistan thus far.

He said he intended to bring home combat troops from Iraq in 16 months - the timetable now is July - which would be 18 months.

He said he intended to increase the forces in Afghanistan and press the action against Al Qaeda and its allies into Pakistan - he done that too, even over mostly Liberal opposition.

In fact, Marc A. Theissen, a major architect of the Bush/Cheney Afghanistan strategy, is claiming Obama is "killing too many terrorists (http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/02/08/dead_terrorists_tell_no_tales)" - honest to god.... :no: LOL!!

So, regardless what one's position on either front might be, please acknowledge that Obama has been true to his word....

[Daisy]

In fact, Marc A. Theissen, a major architect of the Bush/Cheney Afghanistan strategy, is claiming Obama is "killing too many terrorists" - honest to god....

I'm surprise you posted that link. What I got out of the article is that Obama's war decisions are like most of his other decisions to date - press on with extreme actions and damn the consequences.

Obama has escalated the use of drones to kill many of the most wanted terrorists (along with civilian innocents, which usually makes liberals cringe) - that sounds great (the killing terrorists part), until you realize that those terrorists can't be captured and interrogated. That means our commanders are flat out losing a lot of intelligence information. That's not so great...

As for Obama being true to his word on bringing home the troops - it's not July yet, so that remains to be seen.

[oladcock]

pdc, "So, regardless what one's position on either front might be, please acknowledge that Obama has been true to his word...."

Yes, I'll give him that as far as drawing down in Iraq and being aggressive in Afghanistan/Pakistan. I wish we knew if the counter insurgency strategy on the ground was recommended by the Generals or whether it's a strategy as the result of the administrations political wishes? It's probably a mixture of both. Too restrictive rules of engagement tends to result in too many loses, we either need to fight it to win or get out. Maybe the best bet is arm the women and back off and see what happens! :)........O.L.

[kralspaces]

Thanks for the varied responses. I have been studying the situation lately and the more I read, the more confusing the situation is.

OL, pdc was responding to my first sentence in my post about hope and change regarding the wars.

pdc, yes, some of the troops have been removed from Iraq but have been replaced with mercenaries and paid for with our tax dollars.

Daisy, we already won the war in Afghanistan back in 2001. It didn’t change a thing.

OL, the French? They needed to keep the British busy in the New World so they won’t interfere in the Old World. There intent was not about our freedom.

What I struggle with is how history is repeating itself. I watch a lot of programs on History and Military channels and think about how that applies to today’s world events. Nothing is really different, except the players. Having foot soldiers on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan won’t resolve the problems in the Middle East. I don’t have the answer, but I am now sure that one is not it.

If we got out, I think the entire area will self implode. Is this a good thing or a bad thing for the US and the rest of the world? I don’t have an answer to that one either.

[oladcock]

"OL, the French? They needed to keep the British busy in the New World so they won’t interfere in the Old World. There intent was not about our freedom."

Not on the face, you are right. Every country will have their interests first and foremost, except ours! :) At least it caused the red coats to split their assets and prioritize. After they beat the French (who hasn't?), then they diverted their attention back to us..Big mistake! Washington needed to be remodeled anyway. Where are they today when we could really us them! :)...O.L.

[kralspaces]

Washington needed to be remodeled anyway. Where are they today when we could really us them! :)...O.L.

Are you referring to the burning of Washington? If so, you may have the wrong war.

[oladcock]

The war of 1812 is what I'm refering to. After they beat the French they thought they could turn all their attention on us......O.L.