7 years after Operation Iraqi Freedom

[Alfdom]

On March 19, 2003 President Bush ordered the start of this war. I am not surprised to see no one on this forum bothered to observe this day. As one vet said, "I fought for my fellow Americans' freedom to forget about the war." We are all too busy with our tea parties and local politics to remember the day. What better way to support the troops than to forget the day and go about business as usual.

[oladcock]

As Vietnam vet and gulf war vet, I see little to no significance in that day. We've been engaged in that region militarily way before then and will be 50 years from now, I see it as finally doing what should have been done years before. I honor our troops EVERYDAY, you can select one day if it makes you feel better. If you really want to honor our troops, honor the principles laid out by our founding fathers and the constitution so they have the same great country to come home to, progressive politics worries them more than combat.........O.L.

[John M. Cleary]

Olad, I have said ,since we went in, Iraq is the Germany of the 21st Century, just look at the map.

We wont leave for at least 30 years.

[kralspaces]

What day did we start the Vietnam War? What day did we end it? All I know are the days that I spent there. I don't celebrated any of those days. 9/11 was the offical start of both wars in the middle east. We do recongnize that day, and that day is enough for this vet.

[kralspaces]

Here’s a celebration that I don’t understand: Iraq Veterans against the war protested in Washington yesterday. Everyone in the military volunteered for that war! Vietnam Veterans against the Viet Nam War makes perfect sense to be because we all got drafted. The choice was not ours, except for John Kerry.

[Zoidberg]

Here’s a celebration that I don’t understand: Iraq Veterans against the war protested in Washington yesterday. Everyone in the military volunteered for that war!

You know that's not how it works. You volunteer for the military, and commit to being on hand for whatever action you're needed for. You make it sound like "free trip to Iraq?" and every soldier we sent over there signed up overnight. Nobody deserves the right to criticize their government more than a volunteer who lives in a hellhole and puts their life on the line every day. Shame on you.


Vietnam Veterans against the Viet Nam War makes perfect sense to be because we all got drafted. The choice was not ours, except for John Kerry.

Most people in Vietnam were not drafted. Here's a link (http://www.vvof.org/factsvnv.htm) to help refresh your memory.

[kralspaces]

Shame on me!!! Look, I was drafted into the Viet Nam War and have never protested my situation. Today's soldier volunteers and knows the consequences. If they want to protest the war, then do so as a citizen of the US and leave the distinction of Iraq Veteran out of the picture. That was my point. And I have no idea where you came up with this ‘free trip’ comment. Who are you to judge my opinions. Your comments are accepted, but your judgement of me is not.

[Daisy]

You know that's not how it works. You volunteer for the military, and commit to being on hand for whatever action you're needed for.

Uh, you made his point - that's EXACTLY how it works........:pinch:

[Taco101]

Uh, you made his point - that's EXACTLY how it works........:pinch:


Not all modern vets are like the ones marching in DC. My son volunteered for the Marines Corps. He volunteered for infantry and Iraq....twice. He would have reenlisted had the injuries he received in Iraq not disqualified him. Lots more like him out there.

[Daisy]

And most of us are thankful for your son and the many others out there like him! They are all special people...

You shouldn't voluteer and then ##### and moan about your duties. But, as my daughter saw in Army Basic Training, some actually thought it was gonna be some kind of garden party. Some people just ain't too bright. :pinch:

[pdc]

I admire those in the services and their honorable and courageous performance of their duties.

However, a particular policy (in this instance, the current Iraq War) is completely distinct matter. The two shouldn't be confused. The military does not, and should not, make our foreign policy.

I also see nothing whatsoever wrong with a veteran identifying his/herself as a veteran - our society has always valued that designation, and if veterans desire to take a public position on any policy, more power to them....

[Rainbow]

What do you mean "Shame on you"? kralspaces is entitled to his opinion and entitled to express it just as everyone else on here is. THAT freedom of expression/speech is one of the freedoms our military have fought to maintain over the years. :no3:

[Alfdom]

It is more than a mere military action. It is the day President Bush went against the forces of evil. Iraq had be invaded to thwart Gog and Magog, the Bible’s satanic agents of the Apocalypse, attacking Iraq was a mission from God.

Gog and Magog were at work in the Middle East. The biblical prophecies were being fulfilled. This confrontation was willed by God, who used this conflict to erase his people’s enemies before the New Age began.

Now the people's enemies are dining on yellow cake in Hell. The stockpiles of WMD are gone, almost like they never existed. Freedom was spread all over Iraq, with the blade of bayonet. No more unmanned drones, mobile NBC labs, or aluminum tubes to threaten a freedom loving country.

[Daisy]

Whoa, dude, whatcha been smokin' tonight? :smk3:

Gog and Magog? I believe in the conflict between good and evil, but not in any religious context. That's all on us humans....with all our numerous shortcomings.

I do not believe in 'missions from God' - I don't think He cares about all this triviality...... not even a little bit.

[pdc]

IMNSHO, the olny lasting value for US hegemony that will come from Iraq would be that we unleashed a bitter warfare between Sunni and Shiite Muslims that will be an ongoing crisis within the Arab world after we leave.

To have openly pursued such an objective would have led to outright rejection as cynical, inhumane and anti-democratic (or "constitutional republican", if you prefer)...

The war was initiated as a "pre-emptive war" supposedly necessitated by proven past and current immanent danger to the US - something that was fully known within the Administration to be bogus, or, at a minimum, lacking any evidential support, throughout the planning, and "selling" of the war.

Add to that the apparent refusal to trust or utilize expertise on the region and culture of Iraq, the implementation of the war plan, after the invasion became an "occupation", was needlessly wasteful of the lives and well-being of the brave men and women who performed their duty honorably and faithfully.

For those reasons, I, personally, could never, in a million years, celebrate or honor the "decision" or "choice to go to that war. Nonetheless, the performance of our troops, as always, was of the highest caliber and respectability....

[kralspaces]

IMNSHO, the olny lasting value for US hegemony that will come from Iraq would be that we unleashed a bitter warfare between Sunni and Shiite Muslims that will be an ongoing crisis within the Arab world after we leave.

Please clarify. I must be reading the wrong history books and watching a different History Channel because as I understand it those tribes have never been friendly (also Kurds). What have we added to that? The British didn't get it right either. I have always thought 3 nations would have been better than one. But then Iran was of a concern to the British and the US.

[oladcock]

"The war was initiated as a "pre-emptive war" supposedly necessitated by proven past and current immanent danger to the US - something that was fully known within the Administration to be bogus, or, at a minimum, lacking any evidential support, throughout the planning, and "selling" of the war."

Keep in mind Slick Willie and Hillary were of the same opinion along with a majority of the democrats so it wasn't contrived or made up.

As a former serviceman, if asked to go in and free a people from a dictator, especially one that did in fact use chemical weapons on his own people, I'll gladly do it. As for hanging around to keep the peace? We're not very good at that. I prefer the strategy of taking problem governments, one big bomb to take out the leadership...Sit back and let the "people" sort out the ashes..If they install another unacceptable government, take that one out too...Repeat as necessary till they are either no longer a threat or they get it right....O.L.

[Alfdom]

Whoa, dude, whatcha been smokin' tonight? :smk3:

Gog and Magog? I believe in the conflict between good and evil, but not in any religious context. That's all on us humans....with all our numerous shortcomings.

I do not believe in 'missions from God' - I don't think He cares about all this triviality...... not even a little bit.

It is a good thing President Bush understood the Bible prophecies better than you. Gog and Magog are not beings I created in a drugged state. They are in the Bible and in the Qur'an.
Before the war, President Bush explained to French president Jacques Chirac,that the sinister biblical creatures Gog and Magog were at work in the Middle East; they must be defeated at all costs. President Chirac did not support our leader and we had to take on this struggle ourselves. That is why we decided to call french fries, Freedom fries. That heathen cheese-eating surrender monkey Chirac looks pretty stupid now.

The great leader Bush had told the Palestinian foreign minister that he was on a mission from God in launching the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. He was receiving commandments from the Lord. Nabil Shaath, who was Palestinian foreign minister at the time, said: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I am driven with a mission from God'. God would tell me, 'George go and fight these terrorists in Afghanistan'. And I did. And then God would tell me 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq'. And I did."
Mr Bush went on: "And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, 'Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East'. And, by God, I'm gonna do it."

[Daisy]

I knew you weren't making them up in drug induced state - I was just being silly.

I didn't know that Bush said that to Chirac, though. Interesting...

[pdc]

While I disagreed with most of Bush II's policies, especially in Iraq, I never considered him to be delusional - however, those anecdotes, if literally true, describe dangerously psychotic behavior - clearly delusional with, apparently, command hallucinations....

I hope it is all fabrication.

[Alfdom]

While I disagreed with most of Bush II's policies, especially in Iraq, I never considered him to be delusional - however, those anecdotes, if literally true, describe dangerously psychotic behavior - clearly delusional with, apparently, command hallucinations....

I hope it is all fabrication.

These "anecdotes" are as true as anything on this site. Surely you are capable of using search engines to give you some idea of when these events happened. This information is years old and I find it odd no one on this site knows about it. Our history shows how the accurate the prophecy is.

If you read the Bible, the Abrahamic covenant in Genesis where God says to , “ I give to you this land between the Euphrates and the Nile.” It’s not a political issue whether Israel should have this land, that it’s a biblical certainty. This has to happen. Christ will not return until that land is given back to the Jews. If you believe in biblical inerrancy, then you have to believe, “I shall bless those who bless thee; I shall curse those who curse thee.”

Go back to English Puritanism, and you see John Winthrop in the 1630’s saying, “We are starting a shining city on a hill.” Shining city on a hill means we’re the New Jerusalem, we’re the new Zion. America is the Promised Land. What we do is ordained by God . Bush believes God has a mission for America and in that belief he is no different from the Founders who actually saw themselves replaying the Israelites crossing the Red Sea.

This war is deep and profound and what’s happened now is run by people who believe in dictating our policies based upon the Bible, as it should be.

[Daisy]

Religious fanaticism is a very frightening thing. I did research this and Chirac did say that Bush called him and made that statement about Gog and Magog and it being a mission from God. I don't know that it is true, though - Chirac really despised Bush, so he could have made up the whole thing.

I hope it is not true and find it hard to believe that a leader of this country would say anything so bizarre. Oops, look at the things our present leader has said.......:pinch:

[mfish]

Daisy, are you referring to our present "leader" who won't be seen in public with the Israeli PM or allow any photos of the two of them to be taken, but has a wall full of photos of himself prostrating before despots and murderous thugs ... you mean THAT "leader?":smk2:

[Alfdom]

If it is not a mission from God then why would Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld send President George Bush wartime memos with cover sheets that mixed Scripture and battle photos to show the Iraq invasion as a holy Christian crusade.

Mfish is right in saying it is about Israel and God's promise of the Holy land. Even if President Obama does not understand the biblical prophecies, there are still people who do understand, making decisions based on how to wage these final battles.

President Bush knows the Holy land has to be under Israel's control before the return. He has had his plans for years and stated his beliefs to all that will listen. He said ,”“You know what I’m gonna tell those Jews when I get to Israel, don’t you, Herman? I’m telling ‘em they’re all going to hell.” Make no mistake there are thousands in the military and the halls of Washington who are busy doing God's work. They have been preparing for these times most of their lives and it does not matter that no one voted them in.

Some people need to wake up before they are left behind.

[Daisy]

... you mean THAT "leader?"

Uh huh, that's the one.

I'm done with the "Holy war" part of this thread. People can believe their 'God' wants them to fight and kill others if they want, but I still say that it is TOTALLY man's doing. Just as the Bible is merely man's interpretation of the scriptures and could very well be way off.

[Alfdom]

Uh huh, that's the one.

I'm done with the "Holy war" part of this thread. People can believe their 'God' wants them to fight and kill others if they want, but I still say that it is TOTALLY man's doing. Just as the Bible is merely man's interpretation of the scriptures and could very well be way off.

The Bible is the scripture. Men can understand it with God's help. It is a good thing we have people like William G Boykin who told it like it is. He said, “Why is this man in the White House? The majority of Americans did not vote for him. Why is he there? And I tell you this morning that he’s in the White House because God put him there for a time such as this.” “George Bush was not elected by a majority of the voters in the United States, he was appointed by God.”

“The enemy is not the terrorists. ... The enemy has come against us in a spiritual realm. We will never walk away from Israel... Many of us are worried about heaven. Heaven is your reward. You are here as soldiers to take on the enemy. But those who hope in the Lord will renew their strength. They will soar on wings like eagles; they will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not be faint ... If there is no God, there is no hope. Don’t let the media, the liberals, sway you in your faith. Pray for America, and we will be victorious. He(Lord)’ll never give more than you can take.”

It is not about one man's veiw of the Bible. This is about secuing Israel for the second coming. There will be much tribulation for you.

[pdc]

Thankk you for the daily message from the Christian Madrassa....

... We will now resume our rational activities.

[Zoidberg]

If you read the Bible, the Abrahamic covenant in Genesis where God says to , “ I give to you this land between the Euphrates and the Nile.” It’s not a political issue whether Israel should have this land, that it’s a biblical certainty. This has to happen. Christ will not return until that land is given back to the Jews. If you believe in biblical inerrancy, then you have to believe, “I shall bless those who bless thee; I shall curse those who curse thee.”

Alf, quit plagiarizing (http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Vanity_Fair_contributing_editor_Craig_Unger_on_the _Bush_family_feud,_neoconservatives_and_the_Christ ian_right).

[Zoidberg]

... We will now resume our rational activities.

Those of us who have them, that is..

[Alfdom]

Alf, quit plagiarizing (http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Vanity_Fair_contributing_editor_Craig_Unger_on_the _Bush_family_feud,_neoconservatives_and_the_Christ ian_right).

Some people think I am fabricating now you post I am plagiarizing. I did read the article and many more like it. What ideas do you think I stole from the article? Do you think the ideas of crusades, end times, Gog and Magog and missions from God can be plagiarizied? No one said Ronald Reagen was plagiarizing when he talked about the city on the hill.

I never claimed my ideas were orginal, they are in the Bible for anyone to see.

[Zoidberg]

Some people think I am fabricating now you post I am plagiarizing. I did read the article and many more like it. What ideas do you think I stole from the article?

You copy-and-pasted it, without giving credit to who originally wrote it. Even the typos are identical.

We have a thing in this country called copyright law. Did you ask the original author's permission to republish his work without giving him credit? Flouting that is the sort of activity that gives fine site operators like ours headaches when lawyers come a'e-mailing.

[Alfdom]

Thankk you for the daily message from the Christian Madrassa....

... We will now resume our rational activities.

Why would you think studying and learning Christian religion is irrational? We are still going about the rational activities of securing Israel from the forces of evil. What ever I post does not change the facts. Ignoring what is happening and attacking the truth is irrational.

[Alfdom]

You copy-and-pasted it, without giving credit to who originally wrote it. Even the typos are identical.

We have a thing in this country called copyright law. Did you ask the original author's permission to republish his work without giving him credit? Flouting that is the sort of activity that gives fine site operators like ours headaches when lawyers come a'e-mailing.

What typos are you talking about. I know not of what you speak. I did give credit to the Bible where the ideas came from. The article you refer to is under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. No need for you to worry about lawyers because of this post. I did not republish his work and do not claim any of these ideas were original. I knew President Bush was on a mission from God long before the article was written.