UFO Festival 2010

[kralspaces]

There was a good editorial in the RDR this morning that I thought was spot on - IMHO. http://www.roswell-record.com/article/ufo_festival050110?id=126015 for those who don’t mind signing on.

This will be Rene Roach's last year to coordinate the City activities in this year’s festival (already in the budget, but we really don't need to spend it). That, I know is a fact jack, right from the source. The Mayor has stated that he would like to see a private organization handle the festival, with financial help from the City Government. It looks like the entire festival may be headed back to the UFO Museum again. Many on this forum should appreciate that.

[Daisy]

I can't say it would bother me to have the UFO Museum or some other private org. take over the Festival. Remember all the money spent on after parties for the dignitaries? Remember the $600 or so spent on fancy ice cubes and shirts? Not to mention the 'misplaced' money that no one ever had to account for.

What's your objection to the UFO Museum or another private org. taking over the Festival, kral? The city could pitch in some help, but wouldn't bear the whole cost.

As for the editorial, I thought it made it seem like there wasn't going to be any more UFO Festival and I don't think that's the case at all.

[kralspaces]

Daisy, the UFO Museum is and always has done their Roswalien Experience: http://www.roswellufomuseum.com/festival2010.htm

That program is not the same as the UFO Festival put on by the City that was started by Mayor LaGrone in 2007. The reason the city got involved was because the 2006 festival managed by the Museum was a disaster. Talk to the hotel and restaurant owners. Talk to the novelty shops downtown. It was the worst showing ever. The Museum asked the city for help with the future of the festival. Now Mayor Jurney wants to drop the cities participation. What has changed in the last three years other than the Museum piggybacked on the Cities investment in the festival. The Museum’s investment this year is very limited as defined on their web site. If the City does back out of the festival as a participant, how much money should the city commit to whatever group takes over the program? This city would be stupid to not continue to invest in this festival. The UFO Phenomena is this city's number one tourist attraction. It surely is not the cows.

As for the missing money, can you substantiate that with a fact, instead of your conjecture?

[Daisy]

I don't remember if that was last year or 2008, but I believe there was an article in the paper about it - anyone else remember that? I believe she just laughed it off like, how silly of me not to be able to account for that.

Here are some figures saw posted last year pertaining to the 2008 Festival that I thought were interesting....

The lodgers tax reports indicated that motel revenues dropped by $94,000.00 from 2007 to 2008 for the month of July.

Gross receipts tax reports indicated that revenues dropped about $1,750,000.00 from 2007 to 2008 for the month of July.

Gross receipts tax reports indicated that gross revenues dropped about $4,470,000.00 from June 2008 to July 2008.

Yet, Rene claimed that Festival was a "huge success"..........:pinch:

saw, do you have any numbers for last years Festival??

[saw]

In my opinion, First of all the Mayor is not going to cut off all of the funding. There will be lodgers tax for the advertising of the festival.

He like a lot of folks just wants the city to get out of running the show.

It was a miracle that the 2007 show did as well as it did. Two of the main folks quit the committee because of Renee. I know others that they said they would not never work with her again. I think that Zack and Stan had things pretty well lined up until she decided to take over the show. Some of you folks might remember that she had a runaway cost and finally had to be reined in and some of the planned events had to be deleted or trimmed. Still it cost the city well over $200,000.00

July's gross taxable sales dropped about $845,000.00 from 07 to 09 and this does not allow for inflation.

July's hotel revenues dropped about $169,700.00 from 07 to 09 despite room prices increased by about 15% during that period of time.

The best month out of the year is July for lodgers tax.

FY 07-08 July was number 3 in GRT.

FY 08-09 July was number 9 in GRT.

FY 09-10 July is number 3 with three months to go.

June was a better month than July for GRT in 08 & 09.

At the end of September 09 the cost to the taxpayers for the festival was $159,426,97 and there was still some cost to come.

Merchandise sales for the city was $6000.00+ for festival 08 and $479.00 for festival 09.

Entertainment cost for 09 was about $63,000.00 and revenues from the concert was $14,629.00. (fewer than 500 tickets sold for the concert at NMMI auditorium)

Some new cost for 09, Peter Robbins, market consultant, $15,000.00 plus per dieum and travel to work with Renee, marketing director. Mufon service fees $15,000.00 (speakers fees). The city sent Rick Johnson's advertising agency in Albuquerque some $41,000.00. At least we did not have the $3,000.00 cost for booze that was spent in 08 to pour over the glow in the dark $600.00 ice cubes.

The city will be well off if the civic clubs, the UFO museum, Mainstreet Roswell, etc. will take over the festival and the city can furnish the advertising bucks and the civic center, etc. Let some of those folks that benefit most from the festival pay some of the cost and furnish the manpower.

This will be Renee's and the city's 4th year for the festival and if it does not some improvement then what would you suggest?

[Daisy]

Thanks, saw, I knew you'd come through with the numbers. I don't know how you do it, but am glad you do....

It will be interesting to see how this year's Festival goes and if anyone will be able to work with Ms. Roach.

I'm not at all good with numbers, but it looks like the Festival is not doing well at all, compared to the money the city is putting into it.

[kralspaces]

It's not all about cost. It's about keeping the focus on Roswell alive. That marketing takes money and I think the city should finance that effort though lodger's tax, as they have been doing in the past. If a private group takes over, they should be provide whatever is necessary to get the German's or any other visitors to come all the way to Roswell and spend their money.

... and we need to deliver something worth the trip.

[oladcock]

I'd bet the drop from 2007 to 2008 was due to the economic down turn world wide. I'm not confident that has changed? I'm all for the city getting out of the business within reason. A little promotion is fine but let private business take the ball and run. It's either viable or it's not. Seems some of the cable channels do a LOT of promotion for us.

Kral, "The UFO Phenomena is this city's number one tourist attraction. It surely is not the cows."

Are you saying the UFO/tourism revenues exceed the millions in corporate welfare and tax breaks the feds dump into Chaves county every year? Wow....O.L.

http://farm.ewg.org/region.php?fips=35005

[Daisy]

Steve Przybilla is a writer for a newspaper travel magazine in Germany who is in town this week doing an article on Roswell's UFO Festival and it's impact on the city.

Billy and I met with him this morning - he had read about TRAC and wanted to interview Billy about TRAC's goals and objectives. He also asked what we thought of the city's roll in the UFO Festival and whether it should be run by the city. He had interviewed Rene Roach yesterday, and will be interviewing several more people, including Mayor Jurney. He stated that he had contacted several City Councilors and only one returned his request for an interview - he didn't say which one, but whoever it was is out of town this week and regretted not being able to meet with him. I told him not to take it personally, some of our Councilors don't respond to anyone....;)

Steve is a very nice young man and I really enjoyed meeting him. It will be very interesting to read his aricle to see what his take is on all this after his many interviews.

He also said that everywhere he goes, people know about our city. Roswell is obviously already well known throughout the world for our Alien Encounter of 1947. Whether people think of our 'incident' as a joke or a serious matter for research, the UFO Festival has a little something for everyone.

[kralspaces]

Are you saying the UFO/tourism revenues exceed the millions in corporate welfare and tax breaks the feds dump into Chaves county every year? Wow....O.L.

http://farm.ewg.org/region.php?fips=35005

Are you saying that tourist come here because of our corporate welfare and tax breaks? WOW!

[saw]

According to the reports that I have seen the UFO portions of the festival are doing all right. (UFO museum reports attendance up by 25%)

It is the carnival that the city is trying to do that is going over like a lead balloon.

The fireworks are good but fireworks are going on everwhere, so no draw there.
This not a motion to do away with the fireworks but they are for the locals and it is for the 4th of July celebration.

The concerts have not been working but have cost a lot of bucks.

Motel revenues have dropped, GRT have dropped for July despite the fact that the best years for GRT in Roswell has been in the last two FY 08 & 09. June's GRT exceed July's GRT

Most of what I have seen is we have sent over a $100,000.00 out of town each year not including what the out of town vendors have left with.

Most of the comments about the festival other than the UFO die hards have not been good. If you are not a diehard UFO fan, what does Roswell offer, what can Roswell offer? If you are not a die hard UFO fan you will find that the festival offers about a thirty minute tour of the museum and then nothing more than you can see in any town over the 4th of July weekend.

It appears that the best event other than those for the UFO folks has been the $3,000.00 cocktail party with the $600.00 glow in the dark ice cubes which I did not get an invitation to. Think about it, if the city would pay for more of these cocktail parties how it might affect attendance.

Kral, what would you offer to make this three-four day festival a success?

Maybe if the city would try a year around advertising campaign (not in New York) in the NM mag, Sunset, etc. we might get more tourist trade and maybe promote that we are in the center of some best tourist draws in the state. I see ads for Ruidoso, Taos, etc. and I see that their lodgers tax is more than that of Roswell and they don't have the business visitors that Roswell has.

Think about it, Socorro's wild life refuge gets more year around visitors than Roswell does and yet we have the same draw here at Bitter Lakes.

[saw]

Councilman Huckabee had a good letter to the editor in todays RDR about the UFO festival and why the city needs to get out of it.

The city has been very vague about some of the spending of bucks and the results of certain events.

For instance, the MUFONS speaker conference, Renee stated that they had 750 in attendance to hear 14 speakers. She did not say how many of those folks that might have been counted two or three times or if there was an actual count even made.

The MUFON speakers conference tab was $15,000.00. My guess is there was maybe 250 folks that attended at least three events. $15,000.00 divided by 250 equals $60.00 per person that it cost the taxpayers. Cost per speaker $1,071.00.

She also stated that there were 72 vendors for the the four day event that brought in 11,000 consumers. I am sure that these consumers were counted three or four times if they were counted at all.

These 72 vendors paid the city $9,050.00 for the booth rentals and the city paid out $9,078.39 for security, pipe and draping rental, and badges. So the city was out the cost of clean up, utilities, etc. which of course was not included in the cost of the festival.

Most of these vendors are from out of the city and I would guess that they left the city with more than $125,000.00 in their jeans. That equals about $11.00 being spent by each consumer. If the vendors did not take that much out of town at the end of a four day event there will be a lot of them that will not be back because of the lack of sales. $1,700.00 for four days ($425.00) is not much when you start deducting the cost of merchandise, say $800.00. the expenses of getting to Roswell and back home. The cost of staying in Roswell, etc.

I got a letter from Renee 8/26/08 stating "I have been instructed by City administration to inform you that if if you would like to obtain any more information about the UFO festival or any other City coordinated event, department, or project to please contact the city clerk"

[mfish]

I can see the writing on the wall for this one. The city will fade the museum some OTAB money and the museum will do their thing, and advertise it as the "festival." UNLESS some civic organization (or community group)recognizes the merit of the festival and takes it over with cooperation from the city.

For instance: SERTOMA took over the Mike Satterfield Fireworks Display.

Someone can certainly put together a community committee and run a successful festival. It has been done in the past - WITH VERY LITTLE CITY COOPERATION, I might add (I am speaking from experience). But it takes a great deal of time and some real leadership - with the ability to not allow anybody to go off half-cocked with a hair-brained idea that is destined for failure.

There was a time when the museum was willing to work hand-in-hand with a community committee - but from what I've heard, that might be difficult these days, since the musuem seems to have its own agenda and direction.

[pdc]

I see Church-on-the-Move as a willing, though decidedly imperfect, player here too - what say you all to that?

[kralspaces]

They have their own agenda and it is not about aliens. There needs to be a czar to manage all the different events for that week-end.

[deliveryboy]

This alien thing is a bunch of crap. Every Summer the whole city is rallying around a bunch of aliens. "Who in my view are demonic", but that's a different story. The city lets a company with a multi-million dollar payroll shut down (TMC/NOVA Bus). And that took other supporting companies with it, "American Seating and Creative Pultrusions" just to name a couple. Jobs, jobs, jobs, where are they now? Now we are worshipping Aliens "demons" for a few days each summer. Hoping for a monetary blessing through GRT's, while the working man has to ponder when he will be able to work again. "This town is cursed!".
This "town" has to get back to it's original mindset, and use the facilities that we have been blessed with. We could be using all of that empty warehouse space for soundstages for the "so-called" New Mexico film industry that we supposed to have. We have a College level film class. How can little Roswell start cashing in on this?. I can remember "Big Bill" flying in, to comment on the resurgence of the bus industry. I seem to recall his statment that Roswell would become the manufacturing hub of S.E. N M or was it about Dean Baldwin? "Roswell is going to be the aircraft hub of S.E. N M". Whatever it was, it was a "boldfaced lie". He gets enough votes with the two cities up North. Who cares about the South part of the State.
What ever happened to McGuire Research? It was supposed to have a three year lease with the city? "With its flexible hours it will be a great place to work if your a Mother or one of our a Seniors". Once again we will have an opportunity to try to have a local veterans clinic with the moving of the New Mexico Rehab Center to it's new home. Can we possibly use the old location of the Rehab Center? Or did someone already declare it an abandoned nuisance? Can our Veterans afford to wait for someone to declare it an abandoned nuisance, by having someone break its windows and use its walls for graffiti? I think not. " Its now waiting for the wrecking ball." That's what was written about St. Mary's Hospital. Just checkout the newspaper clipping on display at the Chaves County Indigent offices.

[dwizzle40]

Well apparently someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed!! Tourism is a part of our local economy and we should invest in it wisely, which is the discussion taking place on this thread.

[Jim]

Everywhere I go when I mention Roswell they grin and ask about the aliens. Some believe we really have aliens here. We have plenty of illegal aliens but no little green men from UFO's. It brings tourists and their dollars here so as silly as it seems to me its a way for the city to make money.

[Rainbow]

I will freely admit that I have not been a big supporter of the UFO festival. I have vocally supported it, but since I have not actually stepped up to volunteer to help with anything, I don't consider myself a true supporter. ("Put your money where your mouth is"). But I wish to add my opinion;

I believe that Roswell would be like any other isolated, small, struggling town if it were not for the UFO story. Most people are only passing through Roswell on their way to other places. But, many people STOP in Roswell ONLY because of the UFO reputation. The museum and UFO related novelty stores will be their only interest in our city. They don't care about our infrastructure, economy, industry, religious beliefs or anything else. Were it not for specific events, such as Gus Macker, Hike & Spike, NMMI, or the UFO Museum/Festival, I dare say, we'd be exactly like the quiet, dusty old towns you pass through on your way to anywhere, where you ask yourself, "How did this place ever come about and what in the hell do people do here?"

A lot of businesses have come over the years with promises of bringing jobs, money and a spotlight to Roswell. But how many have come through on those promises? Yet the UFO Museum/Fesitval continues to be a draw that puts people in our motels, restaurants, shops and other businesses which provides jobs, brings money to our city and certainly shines a spotlight on Roswell.

Whether you personally believe in it or not is beside the point. It is good for Roswell to have this reputation because without it, we'd be nothing! We really have nothing unique to offer except our UFO reputation. Think about it, lots of cities have good weather, friendly people, an airport, wide open spaces, clear skies, etc...AND many cities have MORE than we have. We are literally in the middle of nowhere. Yes, it is a nice place to live...but who would want to visit if it were not for our UFO reputation? To discount the importance of it is foolish. To compare it to other businesses or assets we have is fruitless because it is so unique.

Because we have this "gem", we need to capitalize on it any way we can. Instead of "hiding this mysterious green light under a bushel", we should do all we can to let it shine. The reputation and name are already there, that work has been done. We just need to improve on it, get excited about it, put heads together and gather working hands to create something spectacular.

The UFO Museum appears to be focused on mainly the serious study of UFO's so their speakers and programs should be handled by them. I believe the city should provide a salary for a UFO Fun Festival Chairman and that person would form the volunteer committees to handle all of the other aspects of putting together festival activities. Donations from corporations, businesses and private citizens should provide the needed capital with proceeds from the event funding subsequent events.

When I see all of the other events that occur in Roswell all year, every year and read the list of donors, I believe we have the money and people who can make this happen. I have been to festivals all over the place put on by dedicated volunteers that are hugely successful and fun...wine festivals, garlic, strawberry, art, you name it...people get together with a common goal and they work to put on small town events that bring in people who enjoy themselves and return year after year. The city has other "fish to fry"...we need to hire a person locally who will head this things and manage it well and we need to get more citizens involved. It is OUR city, OUR reputation and putting on a great festival ought to be in the best interest of us all so we should all get onboard.

[kralspaces]

The UFO Museum appears to be focused on mainly the serious study of UFO's so their speakers and programs should be handled by them. I believe the city should provide a salary for a UFO Fun Festival Chairman and that person would form the volunteer committees to handle all of the other aspects of putting together festival activities. Donations from corporations, businesses and private citizens should provide the needed capital with proceeds from the event funding subsequent events.

At the town hall meeting, I started to suggest something on the lines of a Czar to coordinate the many events that occur over that weekend, but no sooner than I said the word Czar did the Mayor respond with 'NO CZAR'. I used the term Czar in humor, but there should be someone to centrally manage the events.

The Mayor stated that there would be a meeting after this year’s festival to discuss how to structure a committee and manage the festival in the future. What would you suggest for the makeup of an oversight committee to manage the festival week-end?

[Rainbow]

My concern for this year is that the city is not going to throw a lot into it knowing they will be backing away next year. I suspect they will do the minimum they have to do.

I believe you "get what you pay for", so the city really does need to hire someone to head up the festival and pay them a decent wage and maybe even a % of the profits as a bonus to encourage them to give it their all. Heading up something like this is going to require a LOT of time. Committees will need to be chaired by known dedicated hard workers with lots of contacts and a reputation for getting things done.

I think many citizens believe they are not needed or wanted because they have either never been asked to help or offers to help were shut down by those whose egos wouldn't let new people in. So the word must get out that volunteers are needed, wanted and will be appreciated. I think we have such potential if this thing is headed up right.

[Jim]

In fairness any committee should include some aliens.

[saw]

The big problem with the festival is that we have a city paid czar running it for the past three years and this will be the fourth.

My suggestion, Main Street Roswell, Civic Club(s), Chamber of Commerce(s), etc. one or more of them select a committee to direct the festival and if they want to hire an executive director, let them do it. They could use funds from the lodgers to tax to do it. If the City hires a director they will become a permanent employee with pension, health care etc. I am sure that the committee can find someone in Roswell, maybe a retiree that can do a better job than the City employee(s) have been doing for a fraction of the cost. If the director does not do the job that pleases the committee they just can say so long and good luck. This can't be done to a City employee.

For instance, I know for sure that there are experts in Roswell in the marketing field that would do a better job and would not cost the City a dime.

I have always said let the UFO museum take care of the die hard UFO's with the speakers etc.

Let the Festival committee do the entertainment part and the fireworks do their thing. The UFO Museum doing speakers and the city also having another 14 speakers at a cost of $15,000.00 is so much c--p.

Another thing, the merchants, eating places, motels, etc. that are getting a free ride need to contribute something to the festival. The taxpayers furnishing them with a Christmas in July is a bunch of c--p.

When the Festival Committee gets it together, then the City can give the committee some lodgers tax funds to help out, and I said help out, not to fund the whole show as they are doing now.

[Daisy]

I agree - the city should get out of it except for helping out with money from the lodger's tax.

For the last few years, it has been like a competition between the UFO Museum and the city with the city trying to copy and outdo what the museum is doing. The two entities used to work together until personalities and egos got in the way, then the Museum opted out to do their own thing. I can't really say that I blame them - the city people were out of line - they didn't want to cooperate with the museum people and wanted to take all the credit, from what I understand.

That arrogance and combative attitude was not in the best interests of Roswell and should not have been allowed by the city leaders who were in office at the time. I think Renee was their little darling and they thought she could do no wrong. None of them even flinched when she spent so much city money on those ridiculous after parties. :no3:

[mfish]

In 1995, Mainstreet Roswell declined the invitation to have an active role in the Festival.

[Daisy]

You would know way more than I do about this, as you were once involved in it. All I know is what I've heard around town from different individuals.

[pdc]

Ever since City Rec dumped on Merle Haggard, I've figured the organizers were more interested in their myopic, self-serving agendas than in promoting Roswell and projecting a positive image out there - I pay no attention to the festival any more....

[mfish]

The Merele Haggard debacle was actually more involved than just the city ... seems there was another entity that greedily snapped up all available venues around town with deposits to try to control the entire festival (and its cash flow) - and then tried to strong - arm the best thing that could have happened to Roswell and the festival - Merle Haggard (Merle was prepared to do an annual Fourth of July / UFO Concert with different co-stars every year). Of course, Haggard's people weren't used to dealing with arrogant and idiotic people - or more importantly, AMATEURS who thought they were being savvy, so they backed completely away from Roswell and the festival, never to show up again.

This can be related to a lot of potentially good things that "just about" happen in Roswell, until someone with a personal agenda or a level of greed that surpasses Midas butts in and makes a mess of things.

Had the folks in Roswell cooperated with Merle Haggard - by now, Roswell would have been known as the Mecca for Merle's Annual Fourth of July Concert. Just like Willie Nelson's annual parties in Terlingua (and now in Dripping Springs),Texas.

Probably one of the dumbest things stated after the Merle deal blew up was by an "official" (term used oh, so loosely) of the City Parks & Rec Dept. who actually stated: "Well - Merle Haggard has already been here two years in a row. We need someone new." Of course, that moronic statement exhibited a complete lack of understanding of how these things work. Sure, "Merle" had already been to town twice. But let's see ... one year he brought Pam Tillis and Marty Stuart with him, and the next year he brought Willie Nelson. No telling who he would have dragged along in the following years. And thanks to some really dumb folks, no one will ever know.

I'm being kind by not naming names. But I know the names, so if anyone cares, shoot me a PM and I'll go into more detail ... It's a done deal and what's over is over, so dragging idiots publicly through the dusty streets of Roswell over a really stupid mistake won't accomplish anything - but you have a good reason to learn more details, I'm happy to share them privately if they'll help from having the same mistakes made - like putting the same stupid people in charge ... for instance ...

[Daisy]

I remember reading about the Haggard fiasco and thinking someone had screwed up big time. I don't think we'd want anyone who made that very dumb mistake in charge again.

All these years, we could have had Merle Haggard and his buddies performing every 4th of July.....:no3:

[saw]

I did not know or I forgot that the festival went back before the 1997 catastrophe.

That was the 50th when all of the out town promoters came to town and promoted all of us hicks.

At that time we had a roach coach and they begged us to take it to the fair grounds because the predicted crowd was going be astronomical. They expected 100's of RVers and campers.

They wanted big bucks from us to park and finally we came to an agreement of 10% of the gross. We stayed all day and evening and paid our 10% of the gross at the end of the day which was $1.75 and it would not have been that except a band showed up to entertain the visitors. The most that was there was two or three campers and one motor home. It cost us some money but not anything compared to what some of the motels got hit. The motels had been booked for a couple of months by promoters and that along with other things killed the attendance. They (UFO committee) still tells the same story each year about all of the motels being booked weeks ahead of time and it kills the attendance. One of the motels in 1997 had stuffed their walk-n frig with food and had to throw most of it out but on the bright side they did not have to buy any frozen food for a long time.

Then there was the $100,000.00 hot check in 1997. I don't know what ever became of that disaster.

Back to 1995, how did the festival go that year?

Another question, I thought that W. Nelson was doing his thing at Lunkenbach Texas at that time, if not when?

[mfish]

Then there was the $100,000.00 hot check in 1997. I don't know what ever became of that disaster.

The guy charged with the "hot check" (which wasn't, by the way) was vindicated - the case was dismissed, and he has systematically been suing and settling with, the network affiliates in Albuquerque and Lubbock for the character assasination the TV stations performed when he was initially arrested. In other words, yet another example of a guy who came to town to try to help with the festival getting a raw deal. The manager of the Sally Port Inn that year better hope he never runs into that guy ... the bill The Sally Port "presented" to him was as bogus as that counterfeit check the promoter had from Disney (which was the intial issue to begin with regarding the "check" - but evidently, the issue was too complicated for some locals to grasp). OH ... that makes yet ANOTHER example of a local trying to rip off someone who came to town to help.

The first festival was in 1995 - it was a small affair held in DeBremmond Stadium because the civic center wasn't finished. But it was "successful" as far as reception among the public goes. Do not remember if there was a profit, so it must have been small (which is to be expected for the actual event - it's the merchants who profit).

Willie never "did his thing" in Lukenbach, Texas. It was Terlingua - they had a chili cook-off and concert. He has moved his annual party to Dripping Springs, west of Austin.

All these years, we could have had Merle Haggard and his buddies performing every 4th of July.....

That's right - with no up front costs to the festival or the city. All Merle's people wanted was revenue from the show itself (ticket sales, some of the parking and maybe even a piece of the beer sales) which was a golden deal. But when dealing with rank amateurs, you can hang all the golden deals in front of them you have and they're still too stupid to see the light.

[mfish]

Over the years, I have become more and more convinced that a successful annual UFO Festival was out of reach for Roswell, primarily because of the experiences I've had with the local people involved.

Sad, really - because it really could have been a jewel for the town.

[Rainbow]

I agree with you Fish. If it was possible for Roswell to have a really great festival, I think we would be seeing that after all of these years.

Every other town where I have gone to their festivals, someone gets an idea, a group of hard working excited people turn out to work, they start out small and work their way up to a successful event that people come back to every year and it grows. The citizens turn out year after year to volunteer because even though it is a lot of work they have a lot of fun and camaraderie. Visitors have a great experience so they tell people about it and they come back.

Instead, what I see here is egos run amok. Everyone wants to be the chief. Volunteers are not treated well. It is poorly organized and managed. People who have attended leave disappointed and disenchanted. It becomes embarrassing so locals don't want to attend let along participate.

New ideas are tossed aside "...because we have always done it this way". As if new ideas can't possibly improve what we do. The real killer is that people are so narrow in their thinking and they always flip out at the idea that we could introduce wine or beer and still have a safe and family friendly event.

This thing needs a total overhaul from the top down. We need a project manager, we need a bunch of committees to handle PR, events, food booths, music, the parade, things for kids, etc... I always thought that we spend far too much advertising around the world. Our advertising needs to focus on those who can drive here for the day or weekend. Only a select number of people are going to come from around the world, those are the serious UFO people and they know about the festival without us spending thousands to draw them here. Who is going to spend the time and money to come here from far away states when all we offer is UFO stuff? People will go to Disney where you have a lot of things to see and do!

While we need to draw people in from other areas, we really need to make the festival something that also gets huge support from our own citizens.

Solicit bigger and better prizes for parade entries to enourage more creative entries. Get prizes for businesses who do the best job of decorating or putting out special alien signs. Get kids and local artists to create art and murals to put in the windows of empty buildings on Main Street. Have lots of food booths and OH MY GOD how about a beer garden with music so people who just want to relax have a place to do so. Hell...invite wineries to set up booths and make it the Alien Wine and Food Festival. OH MY GOD...I can hear the screams of horror to that idea!

It is time to think outside the box, see what other cities are doing to have successful events and copy their model...they did the ground work, why reinvent the wheel!!!

But...I am dreaming. I suspect once again we will have the battle of the egos, wasted money and the same crappy festival we always have.

[pdc]

Over the years, I have become more and more convinced that a successful annual UFO Festival was out of reach for Roswell, primarily because of the experiences I've had with the local people involved.

Sad, really - because it really could have been a jewel for the town.

100% Agreement.

Unfortunately, in my few community involvements over the years (including Leadership Roswell, REACH 2000, Unity Center....) I have encountered self-serving, myopic and provincial attitudes, often held/expressed by a minority of influential individuals, to have thwarted otherwise positive and promising efforts on behalf on our community.

It left me feeling disappointed and discouraged (especially for the many good, generous, motivated and community-oriented individuals in every group I encountered) and so convinced that "no good deed goes unpunished" that I've withdrawn to the sidelines, and focused my efforts on professional groups not limited to Roswell....

[saw]

The problem that I see with this UFO festival is the date. The die hard UFO'ers will come but the competion that we face on the July 4th weekend is very much a problem.

Roswell is 100 miles or more from a major city and when I say a major city that means more than 25,000 folks. (Hobbs, Carlsbad, & Clovis) We are also competing with West Texas for the Hobbs and Clovis population.

We compete on that weekend with Hobbs and their casino and high dollar entainment in a big event center. Ruisodo with the race track, casinos, high dollar entertainment, and all kinds of unique shopping plus the mountains. Thousands leave Roswell on that weekend to go to other places for the retreat, a cool place, and entertainment that Roswell does not offer.

We only have about 1300-1400 rooms available at best. We do not have an events center that will hold more than 1300-1400 folks at max.

Faced with this competion, what can Roswell offer that will bring folks to Roswell on the July 4th weekend beside the UFOers?

[Dee]

Keep in mind that the Recession has made huge financial cut backs on everyone and everything, so comparing 2007 to 2008 or 2009 will not cut it.
Lets look at the larger scale picture. Overall, the UFO Festival DOES bring in business revenues and without it Roswell will be a Ghost town. Businesses will dry up and move out of town and so will the people.
Keep in mind, building Roswell, building revenues, keep people coming into Roswell!!!
We have tourists that come from China and Japan and all over the world. We have famous people come to Roswell during the UFO Festival. We dont have this anytime else during the year.
Now who or whom is going to be responsible is another question. Why dont we hire a fundraiser person for the city of Roswell that will create festivals and events for the people so we can have some fun and enjoy life.
The UFO Festival is about fun, enjoyment, and some serious lectures for those that are really into it.
Be creative. Bring in the Money!!!

[saw]

Are you sure that it brings in more money than it is taking out of Roswell? Looking at the GRT reports, I am not sure.

It needs a major overhaul and the city has to get out it other than furnishing some bucks from the lodgers tax fund for advertising.

Your saying that bad times might have caused the loss in revenues may have happened but keep in mind during that same period the over all GRT's made healthly gains. Also keep in mind that June's GRT has always been better than July's during the last few years.

Last years concert cost the city about $10,000.00 so that 400 folks could have a good time. I bet they would have been more happy if the city would have given them $25.00 each instead of a concert that cost them $40.00 just to see. Cost of concert over $25,000.00 less ticket sales.

[Daisy]

From another thread:

...the city cut the UFO Festival funding from the general fund which was finally reported in today's paper. You should be pleased with that.

I am very pleased that the city is looking into the money spent on the Festival. I believe Larry Fry stated in the article that it comes from the Lodger's tax and not the general fund.

According to the article, Mayor Jurney said, "following this year’s festival there will be a review process to determine if the amount of money being spent is appropriate and if it’s being spent in the most appropriate manner."

The city still plans to invest in the Festival, just maybe not to the tune of $150,000. Maybe the Festival people will have to skip their little VIP parties with the glow in the dark ice cubes.

I'm glad the city has decided to review money spent on the Festival. The Festival Committee needs to be held accountable for all that money - $270.000 with city funds and sponsorships is a lot of money and I believe the sponsors and the city should know exactly how and where it's spent.

[saw]

It looked like to me that Dusty and Julie said they could do a better job with one-half of the money and Renee said that she could do a better job with twice the money.

It also appears that the "Festival Committee" is made up of city employees for the most part and Renee is their self proclaimed (blessed by Sam)leader.

The downtown merchants, UFO museum, eating places, drinking places, and the motels are the big winners in this festival enterprise. Let them put together a committee and finance that function with some lodgers tax for advertising.

Sending big bucks ($60,000.00 in this year's budget for Rick Johnson) to Albuquerque for an advertising campaign when a better job can be done here with the right people on the committee. This year's budget also has the following items in it that will take bucks out of Roswell, Market consultant/Robbins $10,000.00, Speakers conference/MUFON $15,000.00. Then there are some items in the budget like "Recreation (?) $20,000.00. Total tab for the city is $150,000.00.

By the way there has not been many bucks from sponsers the last two years.

[Jim]

I'm glad to see Mayor Jurney and the Council taking a closer look at this rather than continued spending without a cost effectiveness study.
After all city expenditures what is the return to the city? Do crime rates go up during the festival? Do we have to add more police at overtime pay? Firemen? Does it attract a criminal element? Is the money being spent wisely at a time when we should be looking very closely at the city budget?

[oladcock]

"Total tab for the city is $150,000.00."

That's 2 very well paid police officers...

"By the way there has not been many bucks from sponsers the last two years."

Why should they if the taxpayers will do it for them?....O.L.

[Daisy]

That's 2 very well paid police officers...

But you can't use Lodger's tax for Police Officers, if I understand it right. It has to be used for tourism items...


By the way there has not been many bucks from sponsers the last two years.

Ah, didn't know that - in the article Ms. Roach made it sound like sponsors contribute every year.

[oladcock]

"But you can't use Lodger's tax for Police Officers, if I understand it right. It has to be used for tourism items..."

I know...And who's fault is it we have these pools of targeted money instead of using it where our priorities are? "Targeted" money typically is backdoor social engineering.....O.L.

[Jim]

Good point .... exactly how much do the sponsors contribute as a percentage of the overall costs? And why hasn't that question been asked and answered in the past for each festival?

If we need extra police for this it's an add'l cost for the taxpayer whether its lodger taxes or not. Surely we need more police on the streets when this occurs, there will be more calls for service to the PD and they'll have to put extra people on duty. How much does that cost? That add'l cost beyond normal everyday operational costs should be added to the overall cost for this festival.

A retired city worker who previously attended a planning session for this festival advised that there was discussion of paying someone a fee of $5,000 to come to Roswell for the festival. Parks and Recreation said they could pay that. None of the other depts could. Time to look more closely at Parks & recreations budget if they can so easily pay that kind of money to someone for a festival appearance. Is that a budget item in their budget?

Do we know how much the lodger taxes are increased by this event? Does it pay for itself or contribute significantly to the cost? What percentage of the cost is paid by the add'l lodger taxes generated for that occasion?

Sounds like this has been handled pretty loosely in the past with too many chiefs and not enough indians. Prior mayors and councils didn't seem to question costs (all related costs) v. benefits to the city. Just a rubber stamp approval.

Pls take a close look at this Mayor Jurney & Council.

[Daisy]

And who's fault is it we have these pools of targeted money instead of using it where our priorities are?

I give up - who's fault is it?? ;)

[oladcock]

All good questions Jim. Another one...If we get a 100K in lodgers tax revenue and only spend 60K, what happens to the 40K? Does it go in a pot to be used later or is it a use it or lose it deal? No doubt departments like Parks and Recreation have a budget....If they don't spend what is alloted, their budget most likely will be cut by that amount the following year. They'll seek ways to spend every penny even if it isn't spent wisely.

Daisy, Don't know...Did the voters pass the tax with the stipulation it would only be spent in a given way? Some state reg? I have no idea? All I'm sure of is if the market can stand x.x% added to the cost of a room, that's x.x% profit they are losing that could go to advertizing, expansion, more employees, or get taxed as income.....O.L.

[saw]

The 2010 program is now posted for the festival.

The "Thousand Year Reign" will be in concert plus about the same old stuff except we have a carnival to take some more bucks out of the city.

[kralspaces]

Here's the real scope for 2010: www.roswellufofestival.com/

Here's the City's version: www.ufofestivalroswell.com/

Here's some background on the UFO Incident: www.roswellufocrash.com/

[saw]

Who is doing the first site, that is the one that I was looking at. Did not know it was not the city site.

[Daisy]

At the bottom of the page it said;

Guy Malone / Alien Resistance HQ

www.RoswellUFOfestival.com is not affiliated with The City of Roswell nor The International UFO Museum

[saw]

The UFO Festival is about three weeks away and the only thing that I have seen is an 1/2 page ad in the June issue Of NM Magazine page 79 and it took me about three trips through the magazine before I noticed it..

Other than that I have not seen or heard any advertising, press releases, etc.

The American Profile insert in the RDR has a little announcement on page 10 that reads "Roswalien Experience--Roswell NM July 2-5 UFO researchers and speakers, etc.
this info came from The Inernational Museum and Research Center (575) 625-9495.

Has anybody seen or heard any advertising for the Festival?

Renee is supposed to give us an update at the council meeting Thursday night.

[Jim]

Not something I pay much attention to. I avoid it. Hopfully it's an overall money maker for the city, I feel relieved when its over.

[saw]

I have heard that Billy Ray Cyrus is going to be our big name this year, anybody know anything about it?

A concert will be held at CG, when I have not heard.

[kralspaces]

Miley and Ian were in town not long ago and that is where the connection might be coming from. Only it is a spoof: http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s4i70480#this

Rene and others keep talking about a special guest celebrity. Maybe!

However, if the committe wants to increase attendance, then why keep it a secret?

[saw]

If they want to increase attendance, they might try a little advertising. I have not seen anything other than the 1/3 page in NM Magizene.

Renee mentioned that we had a big secret in the council meeting last week and it would be public Monday.

[saw]

Has anyone heard or seen any thing about the UFO festival this week?

Two weeks till kickoff.

[kralspaces]

Well, there you have it. Read it and weep or laugh if you will. Sad situation.

http://www.roswell-record.com/article/ufo_fest_takes_a_tumble061810?id=148316

[mfish]

I refuse to "log on" to a bush league newspaper just to read the articles (most major papers allow you to access without that) - but the first line says it all - And that's sounds like a BIG EXCUSE. I cannot imagine "headliners cancelling" because of a rumor - they cancel when they don't get paid.

[kralspaces]

mfish, I was hoping you would read the article and comment on some of the finger pointing going on. I posted earlier that I didn't understand why they were keeping Cyrus such a big secret. If they had him booked and advertized everywhere, why would he cancel? Foxes News and Larry King also cancelled.

As for logging in, the ABQ Journal wants me to pay for the subscription to read some of their stuff. The RDR is free, but they do want a login id, just like TR.

[mfish]

Kral - If you can find a copy of this article and post it in full, I'll be happy to read it. But I'll bet it's the same ol' same ol' ... Someone dropped the ball and now they're trying to save face by blaming their failure to follow through on lame rumors about future funding. Key word there: FUTURE.

The Festival is dead. Long live the festival. At least the Fireworks gala hasn't been screwed up ... yet.

[kralspaces]

Maybe it's time to schedule this event every 5 years and spend the money it takes to do better program.

[kralspaces]

At least the Fireworks gala hasn't been screwed up ... yet.

The fireworks has not met it's full potential. I have always wanted to see it as a regional event, not just a city event.

[mfish]

Actually, the fireworks does EXACTLY what it was intended to do - honor our veterans and shoot off a spectacular display (because the last on the city shot in the early 1990s was pathetic). Every town has some sort of fireworks display, Kral - to think you can "draw folks in" for that is naive at best.

[pdc]

I don't think it's appropriate to post an entire story from a log-in site (especially one with such an innocuous registration requirement).

Here is the link: UFO fest takes a tumble (http://www.roswell-record.com/article/ufo_fest_takes_a_tumble061810?id=148316)

Here is the operative info re: the cancellation(s)
The headliners, Billy Ray Cyrus and Phil Vassar, were being sponsored by a silent partner, she said. The partner backed out and told committee officials they didn’t think it would be a good return on investment after hearing the news.

Guest speakers have also been calling the city to verify the status of the event and the blogosphere has lit up with bloggers asking one another, “should we even go?” Roach said.

IMNSHO, total screw-up by the City Council public relations-wise - Penny-wise & dollar-foolish....

[kralspaces]

IMNSHO, total screw-up by the City Council public relations-wise - Penny-wise & dollar-foolish....

It wasn't just CC being penny wise. Most on this forum voiced the same. I tried to spare with them, but got beat up over the cities involvement. No one saw the unintended consequences of this action and if they did, didn't voice it.

[Jim]

The fireworks for veterans is enjoyable for most and is well intended for a good purpose. However, some veterans who have been in battles where flares lit up the night sky prior to an artillery barrage, sniper fire or incoming mortars cringe at hearing those noises and explosions that send rockets skyward. Some have deep mental scars from sounds and sights like that. A friend was just awarded a PTSD claim from VA for memories he's had of things like this since Korea. Enjoy the fireworks but know that there are those, including some veterans and our pets, that don't.

[saw]

Kral, You said that Cyrus was advertised everwhere but I never saw any or heard anything about Cyrus except for word of mouth. Why was it not on the official website?

When I heard about it I went to the Cyrus website and it stated that he was not going to appear anywhere during that week.

I know the silent partner that was going to book Mr Cyrus as many of you do. Nuff said.

It has been a lot of years since I have had anything to do with booking "headliners" but then it had to be booked months ahead and you had to put up a chunk of cash at the time of booking.

Fish, I know you have been involved in this sort of thing, what was your experiance?

Then there was Mr Craig's (Renee's daddy) comment about how he thought that the city should run the festival like the city Albuquerque runs the balloon festival and that was news to me, anybody know the answer to that one?

This story about funds not being on the line item preleminary for next year is killing this year's festival, what a CROCK!!! If you heard that the balloon festival was not going to happen next year would that keep you from going this year? If you heard it might not happen next year would decide not to go this year?

This is like saying I am not going out to diner tonight at the Red Lobster because I heard that they might close next year.

I do not think that there is any chance that the festival will not happen next year and the city will put a wad of lodger's tax funds in it just like they do for most of the events that happen in Roswell. The only thing different is that it will not be run by the city (Renee)

None of the Lodger's tax items have ever been a line item except the festival. The council approves funds for the local events when the committee's request them.

[mfish]

"I know the silent partner that was going to book Mr Cyrus as many of you do. Nuff said.

It has been a lot of years since I have had anything to do with booking "headliners" but then it had to be booked months ahead and you had to put up a chunk of cash at the time of booking.

Fish, I know you have been involved in this sort of thing, what was your experiance?"

I don't have any idea who this "silent partner" is/was. But when I first heard rumors about Billy Ray Cyrus, all I could think was "really?" I mean C'MON - Achy Breaky Heart was a one hit wonder many, many years ago and I couldn't imagine spending any time or money to see Cyrus live. But hey - that's me ... It may very well be a blessing that the show got cancelled - regardless of who did the cancelling, because that was one that was destined for a miserable turn-out.

As to booking headliners: Yes, when you book a band, the normal procedure is to make an offer, when it's accepted, you have a certain number of days to get ONE HALF of the agreed amount to the agent. Then. at the time of the show, you pay the other half PRIOR to the artist going on stage (there are exceptions. If you have a working relationship with an artist, or depending on the noteriety of the artist - so maybe, Billy Ray was cheap and easy ... so no up-front money was needed ...Who knows?)

There are so many acts and artists available for shows like this. One can't help but wonder how Billy Ray Cyrus came up in the decision making process ... "Who can we book that hasn't has a hit in twenty years?" "Who can we book who has a famous daughter, but no real career of his own?"
"Who can we book who can't even fill the 'free room' at a small casino?"

{Shaking my head in absolute wonderment}

[mfish]

And another thing: Kinky Friedman wrote a song many years prior to "Achy Breaky Heart" that had the exact same melody line. He's still waiting for his royalty checks...

[oladcock]

"Here is the operative info re: the cancellation(s)

Quote:
The headliners, Billy Ray Cyrus and Phil Vassar, were being sponsored by a silent partner, she said. The partner backed out and told committee officials they didn’t think it would be a good return on investment after hearing the news.

Guest speakers have also been calling the city to verify the status of the event and the blogosphere has lit up with bloggers asking one another, “should we even go?” Roach said.

IMNSHO, total screw-up by the City Council public relations-wise - Penny-wise & dollar-foolish...."

I saw that story this morning and I'm a little confused? No surprise there, right? :)

So a secret partner is backing out this year because of a possible (undecided) cut in funding next year? Huh???? How would that effect THIS YEAR? Something is fishy.

"they didn’t think it would be a good return on investment"

Exactly how would a single private sponsor (investor) benefit enough to warrent a big single investment? I suspect we're talking a few 10's of thousands to bring in big named entertainment. Who alone would see such a return? And what would their return be without the big names and subsequent government help?

Who ever it is, is obviously making a lot of money off this. This sounds like an individual or small group using blackmail to force the city to do their bidding with taxpayer money. Obviously for a substancial benefit to them.

I contend if the city didn't, it would hurt them (the blackmailers) more than it would hurt the average citizen.

With 1 in 4 of us drawing a public sector check, be it city, country, state, or federal, will they see any benefit from the UFO festival? No......How about those working on or own the farms, ranches, and oil fields?...No.....How about retirees on fixed incomes?...No....Take out those that don't work for what ever reason, I suspect we're up to 70-80% that doesn't see a dine of benefit one way or the other.

Someone said the Hike it/Spike it draws big $$$ into town. If the UFO stuff isn't as cost effective, would investing more in that and less in UFO's be a better option?

What kind of drop off are we going to see due to national and world economy no matter the investment? Could we actually do better because folks will spend what little extra money they have closer to home?

$1,000,000 a year the city gets from the lodgers tax...Is that what is sucked out of tourists pockets locally or is that some Santa Fe progressives judgement of what this area deserves?

If that is the actual number, that's $1,000,000 less the tourists have in their pockets to spend in the restaurants, mom and pop stores, etc. Who could in turn use it to advertise, expand, hire more folks, or what ever. Would they do a better job of helping themselves or would the city council do a better job?

This isn't roads...This isn't water/sewer, this isn't police...This is NOT in the general welfare realm, this is politicians given the power to benefit some more that others based on the decisions they make while being arm twisted from those who potentially could gain the most. I think the city council as individuals are doing a good job, the problem is the "system" has built in potential for abuse. Why? The governing bodies must be (or think they are) smarter than the people actually providing the products/services. I know that's not the case.....O.L.

[mfish]

In my humble opinion, it appears that someone at the City dropped the ball - and when they realized the ball had indeed been dropped, they started pointing fingers at frivolous rumors regarding next year or the next years. I'd bet that nothing had really ever been planned or committed.

HOWEVER - the money the city uses for this festival should be coming from the Occupancy Tax Fund. If that's the case - since that money cannot be allocated towards anything BUT the promotion of the city, its events, or closely related items - what ELSE do they plan to spend that money on? It can't be dumped into the general fund. That's illegal. They can't give a cherry-picked no-bid contract to one of their cronies for a pet project - that's also illegal (unless said project could be construed to be something that will bring people to Roswell - like the civic center or a museum).

EVEN IF THE CITY STEPS BACK IN FUTURE YEARS - they can - and should, commit the funding, and allow someone who actually knows a little bit about these types of things (at least more than they do about say - cosmetic surgery), and allow the festival to actually grow. Gee, what a concept...

Had the city given the original Festival Committee (in the mid 90s) even a small percentage of what they've thrown down the rabbit hole over the past few years, it would have allowed the original festivals some seed money to establish a "game plan" that could have been copied for the next years. This is how SUCCESSFUL festivals happen. They're poperly funded UP FRONT, and then as they grow the funding is gradually pulled back as the event becomes self-sufficient. Also - ALL the PERSONAL AGENDAS need to be left at the door, so something that actually FEASIBLE can be put together. Everyone has an opinion as to what the festival needs, or should have. MOST of the "ideas" are nothing more than ways for those people to capitalize on the folks coming to town - believe me - I've dealt with many of them.

Rainbow has mentioned other communities that have successful annual festivals- and Roswell can have one, too. But not with the current inmates running the asylum.

Every time I start to miss Roswell ... something like this happens that makes me realize why I left in the first place.

[mfish]

BY the way: The last time the festival just about went belly up was when a guy named Johnny Johnson was running the civic center and took control of the festival (1999). He didn't have anything really planned, but he did procure a butt-ugly sculpture of a UFO that sat in front of the civic center for far too long before someone hauled it off - probably for scrap. When word got out that he was sitting on his hands and only had a petty little trade show at the civic center scheduled, I made a few phone calls, raised enough money through private sponsorships to bring in a national musical act (Jack Mack & The Heart Attack) that played in the civic center lawn. There were several hundred people in attendance - which was impressive considering the whole thing went together a few weeks before the festival with little promotion (Betty King at KBIM Radio was a major player with money and air - time, as was Cory Beck at the Roswell Daily Record with money and ad space, and Trisha Ingalls, former partner and now current owner of Roswell Radio with money and air - time). About ten phone calls were made, and all were fruitful enough to raise approximately $15,000.00 to pull this off in a few weeks time. So please don't tell me it can't be done. I've done it.

And another thing: Johnson was given over $5,000.00 from the previous year's festival to use as seed money. That was the profit from the 1998 festival - one of the few years the festival ever made "black ink." And we did it with NO CITY BACKING WHATSOEVER.

[saw]

The $150,000.00 comes from the lodgers tax which is an extra 5% tacked onto your hotel bill. The first one (2007) that the city ran was a lot more expensive. That is the one that the city paid the Roe's over $3,000.00 for the booze to pour over the glow in the dark ice cubes at a VIP party.

The problem with the UFO festival is that the city is trying to run it. The balloon festival is run by a non profit corporation and the festival park belongs to the city. Albuquerque takes care of traffic and transportation. The Albuquerque Covention Center is one of the many sponsers. That is the way it should be in Roswell.

The city of Roswell needs to let a group run the festival and provide some lodgers tax funds for promotional use. The group needs to get some sponsers to fund the major portion of the festival. Those that profit from the festival most should kick in on the cost.

When Sam was defeated for mayor Renee's little playhouse started to tumble and she is trying to blame anybody or anything for the upcoming fiasco in my opinion. She did get some national publicity at no cost however.

By the way, those who are sad that they are going miss Billy Ray Cyrus can see him September in Hobbs.

[Jim]

Very good! Where is Johnny Johnson now? Who runs or manages the civic center? Its city owned so it must be a city employee (s). Does it produce any income for the city? The cost of operation probably far exceeds any income to the city but it looks nice and if we want to grow and have modern facilities to attract people here a civic center is nice. That area by the museum and civic center looks good.

I don't know anything about the UFO Festival and have never attended but it sounds like it could be better organized with less dependence and cost to the city. That may not be a fair statement since I admittedly know nothing about it other than what I've read here.

I suppose there's a correlation between which celebrities appear and the number of attendees. Everything can't be judged by cost versus return. People need to have fun and recreational events to enjoy. When Willie Nelson and/or Dolly Parton show-up I'll be there.

[mfish]

Who cares where Johnny Johnson is now? He turned out to be a big disappointment for the civic center and the UFO Festival.

By the way - I got a call this afternoon from a friend in Roswell. Not wanting to start a rumor mill, I am open to corrections to any or all of this information:

He said it was his understanding that the Billy Ray Cyrus gig was being underwritten by the SciFi Channel, with a small ($2500.00) amount to be put up by a local business family (not my place to name them here). SciFi had planned to shoot a special or some such thing (again - if anyone has better intel on this fiasco, please feel free to correct me).

However, no one from the SciFi Channel or Billy Ray's agency sent back completed contracts, because a conflict arose. His much-more-famous daughter and he had some re-shoots to do for a TV show or some such matter. There was also no follow through from the City staff, so this was not made clear to anyone until a few days ago, and that's when the fingers started to point. So this really had NOTHING to do with any "rumors" about future funding but rather, had everything to do with conflicting schedules on the artist's part, and the usual poor follow through locally.

But don't despair - Joe Vargas has spent a nice chunk of money from the Parks & Rec Budget (and funding from the UFO Fest) to bring in some Tejano music for that weekend, so 400-500 local afficiandos of Tejano music with the price of admisson to spend will have something to do.:smk2:

[Daisy]

From the article;
“I’m frustrated,” she [Renee Roach] said. “Whenever an official tries to satisfy an agenda in any matter it hurts the whole city and not just one person. ... We need to work together and we need to quit working against one another because it is very unappealing to tourists.”

This sounds to me like the UFO Fest people [Renee Roach] counted on something that wasn't a sure thing and now they are blaming the Mayor & CC for it.

Nothing was ever said about this year's festival being cancelled - Ms. Roach would like us to believe that people can't read what was printed in the papers and if they read it, can't understand it properly. I don't buy it.

This is the same person who made the statement last year (or year before?) that all the motel rooms in this city were booked, so people quit trying to make reservations until a retraction was printed. (if I remember correctly)

This smells.........and it ain't a good smell! :no:

And whoever is copying and pasting posts from Talk Roswell in emails for Ms. Roach to read, please make sure you get this part in there - These are my opinions and I will continue to post them. And, Ms. Roach, I hope you accept my invitation to join the forum and correct me when I'm wrong. :)

[kralspaces]

Kral, You said that Cyrus was advertised everwhere but I never saw any or heard anything about Cyrus except for word of mouth. Why was it not on the official website?

Saw, please re-read and tell me where I said he was advertised everywhere.

mfish, I was hoping you would read the article and comment on some of the finger pointing going on. I posted earlier that I didn't understand why they were keeping Cyrus such a big secret. If they had him booked and advertised everywhere, why would he cancel? Foxes News and Larry King also cancelled.

[mfish]

"mfish, I was hoping you would read the article and comment on some of the finger pointing going on. I posted earlier that I didn't understand why they were keeping Cyrus such a big secret. If they had him booked and advertised everywhere, why would he cancel? Foxes News and Larry King also cancelled."

Kral: Mission accomplished ...

"I suppose there's a correlation between which celebrities appear and the number of attendees. Everything can't be judged by cost versus return. People need to have fun and recreational events to enjoy. When Willie Nelson and/or Dolly Parton show-up I'll be there."

Jim: You missed your chance to support the event, then. Willie Nelson did show up - with Merle Haggard the second year Merle brought his show to town - before he was run off for good by the greed and stupidity of a couple of local "business people" (I am using that term as loosely as it is allowed to be used). Merle had planned to do an ANNUAL show in Roswell over the UFO weekend, but some people got greedy and tried to strong arm him ... What's ironic, is Merle was underwriting his own deal - all he wanted was a chance to re-coup his expenses. So if you're waiting for Willie to show up, you're several years too late.

[pdc]

Jim: You missed your chance to support the event, then. Willie Nelson did show up - with Merle Haggard the second year Merle brought his show to town - before he was run off for good by the greed and stupidity of a couple of local "business people" (I am using that term as loosely as it is allowed to be used). Merle had planned to do an ANNUAL show in Roswell over the UFO weekend, but some people got greedy and tried to strong arm him ... What's ironic, is Merle was underwriting his own deal - all he wanted was a chance to re-coup his expenses. So if you're waiting for Willie to show up, you're several years too late.

mfish, I wish you'd abandon your discretion, and name names - I do recall that news reports at the time quoted Joe Vargas as one of those justifying the freeze out of haggard. Apparently a verbal commitment had been made to Haggard's people that the arena would be available, but then it wasn't - Joe V said Haggard was bad for the event, because he kept the gate and took the money out of town, or some such idiotic explanation....

Roswell is so provincial and short-sighted so often....

[Daisy]

Another thing to remember is that the LaGrone group is still smarting from his ousting in the March election and wil be looking for any way to discredit the new administration. It's my opinion that this is what's behind all the finger pointing. That and the funding cuts, of course.

Nowhere was it said that the city would be abandoning or cancelling the UFO Festival - if anyone read it that way, it certainly isn't the Mayor or City Council's fault.

[mfish]

PDC - Joe Vargas was a clueless pawn in that deal, and actually probably appreciated the Merle deal blowing up because he likes to spend a lot of (city) money bringing in tejano bands and the Merle deal was ruining his chance to the be the legend in his own mind by booking bands.

Joe Vargas has been banned from more concert venues than I can count (a couple of them in Ruidoso), because he also likes to "crash" other concerts in other towns claiming he's a "big shot" in Roswell and felt he should be givien free admission - in fact, he crashed an event I was involved with some years ago, but I had much more important things to be concerned with than Joe Vargas, and allowed it to happen (I should have tossed him on his ear ... he brought an entire entourage with him that day, too) ... and, he almost cost a local radio station some serious revenue at another venue because of his little tricks, because he claimed he was a representative of that station!!! Joe is a legend in his own mind ... and it's time for him to retire, or be relieved of his duties (it's actually way past due).

Joe and his band of idiots also almost started a FIGHT with a comedian's road crew in Roswell at a show, because they felt entitled to jack with the equipment - the road crew went ballistic.

Joe needs to start paying his own damned way if he wants to go to those shows, concerts, and festivals - his mooching and leeching for free tickets days are numbered ... and I think most are now wise to his BS. (Hey, JOE - If this is false information, please feel free to correct me).

I "pm'd" you another name. I have mentioned that person before but ya know - she's just not worth the effort any more. I just get totally P.O.ed when I see what could have been a great thing for Roswell get all mucked up by rank amatuers.

[saw]

"Headliner musicians cancelled and Roswell has been flooded with hundreds of phone calls from around the globe with prospective attendees to make sure the 2010 UFO Festival is still scheduled as planned, said Renne Roach, chairwoman of the the UFO Festival Committee"

Does this mean that the headliner musicians cancelled before they were booked? What news got to Larry King and Fox News that would prompt both of them to cancell at this late date?

If a story that the City did not allocate any funds in the preleminary budget for next years UFO budget can cause this much attention and people from around the globe are calling, etc. If that story can create that much publicitity about this years UFO Festival, then why did the city budget $60,000.00 to be be spent with Rich Johnson for publicity this year? Why not just start a rumor? Funny Miss Renee did not mentioned that she had spent two weeks on the phone when she did her report to the council at the last meeting,(June 10) everthing was great and she was going to sign a contract with a "Suprise Headliner" Monday (June 14) morning. The paper also stated the disturbance started after the preleminary budget meeting at the end of May.

Then the story goes on and states that (Rennee) says "I'm frustrated," she said. "Whenever an official tries to satisfy an agenda in any matter it hurts the whole city and just not one person....We need to work together and we need to quit working against one another because it is very unappealing to the tourists" My question, who is the official and what is the agenda?

Then was Neil Roe's comment about the hike and spike it having a budget of $200,000.00 but he fail to mention that only $10,000.00 came from the lodger's tax fund while $150,000.00 is budgeted for the UFO Festival.

Then "I'm (Renee) trying to assure all of our heavy hitters that we're having a festival." she said. "We're having one this year."

Who are the heavy hitters? What does she mean she is "trying to assure" them that there will be a festival this year? Despite the setbacks, she truly is trying.

How about a poll to see how many people would like to see the city get out of "running" the festival and how many favor letting a non-profit take over the festival with the city allocating some lodger's tax like they do for other functions like hike and spike it.

[67cj5]

The alien stuff is stuuuupiiiid! How about we dump the alien BS, and get back to our cowboy heritage? Let’s get back to a founders day. Let’s play up the Corn’s, the White’s, John Chisum, Billy the Kidd, even ole Bob Crosby. They were all here, and I can prove it!! How about Roy Rodgers & Dale Evans? Yep, they were here too!! John Denver was born here!! Did you know that?? Roswell is a pretty cool place even without the Discovery Channel hype. Let the Alien crap dissipate like the fart it is. Hell, Farmington NM and Corona NM need the silliness more than we do. (They both claim a crash site too in case you didn't know) I know the "AREA 51" tee shirts are hot sellers, but any idiot knows AREA 51 is in Nevada.

I know more “REAL” history of this city if you want to hear it. (You probably don’t though) Roswell is awesome, even more so if you drop the Bull Stuff about Aliens...

Ok, Flame away........

I can take it.

[kralspaces]

You forgot to mention Robert H. Goddard, the father of Rocketry. We just spent $244,000 to have that bronze statue erected behind the museum. And don’t forget Pat Garratt, the man is killed Billy the Kidd. We are also going to spend another quarter million dollars to erect a bronze statue of him down at St Mary’s Place. So I think the city and county are investing in our history for all those UFO visitors to see while they are here. However, those bronze statues do not generate GRT.

The UFO Museum has already announced that they will start on their new multi-million dollars museum facility this July, so this phenomenon isn’t going away.

67cj5, its okay that you think its stupid and you aren’t alone. However, the rest of the world is fascinated by it and I like the idea that we have it. Now if we could just get out sh#t together.

[Ralf Schwartz]

After a relaxing Sunday morning of coffee, light rain falling outside my hut and time well spent, I think, on reading this I propose that Saw, Kral and Fish form the committee and make the plan to present to DJ, et. al. How can it lose? Suggest Ms. RR and JV be put out to pasture, possibly the same pasture where there patties can co-mingle. Then, once given the baton you three 'Alien-a-tears' proceed to mend some serious fences with the real reason for the season; JS. Saw, you haven't dug deep enough yet into the "Rick Johnson retirement campaign". So start digging! Kral, with your organizational expertise putting on a top shelf show like this should be right up your 'Disneyland' alley. Fish, Promote, procure and pay for what will breath new and exciting life in the world's most known and most under capitalized ventures since the veg - o - matic.... You know, if it's gonna get done, youse tree is da onez to do it. So get off your keesters and get busy. Oh, and have a nice day :}

[Opinions expressed here do not necessarily reflect the views of this station, internet host or the BP Wildlife Relief Foundation]

[Lebo]

Ralf!!! So good to hear from you. How's the rum in the islands?

[Ralf Schwartz]

De rum, she go down smooth, mon. Soon come and taste for yourself. :}

[Don't Tread]

The alien stuff is stuuuupiiiid! How about we dump the alien BS, and get back to our cowboy heritage? Let’s get back to a founders day. Let’s play up the Corn’s, the White’s, John Chisum, Billy the Kidd, even ole Bob Crosby. They were all here, and I can prove it!! How about Roy Rodgers & Dale Evans? Yep, they were here too!! John Denver was born here!! Did you know that?? Roswell is a pretty cool place even without the Discovery Channel hype. Let the Alien crap dissipate like the fart it is. Hell, Farmington NM and Corona NM need the silliness more than we do. (They both claim a crash site too in case you didn't know) I know the "AREA 51" tee shirts are hot sellers, but any idiot knows AREA 51 is in Nevada.


Amen, either do it well, or move on.

[mfish]

Been there - done that. No thanks.

[mfish]

I just heard that Ryan McGarvey will be playing in Roswell for the 4th of July / UFO Festival ... I don't know where, or when - but I do know he'll be i Hobbs earlier that day (11am) so perhaps someone scrambled about and pulled a rabbit out of their ... um, hat.

http://www.myspace.com/ryanmcgarvey

[Daisy]

I hadn't heard of him, but played a few of his songs on the site and I like his music. I'll just may go to see him and I would not have gone to see Cyrus - I think Ryan McGarvey is a step up.

The schedule on McGarvery's site says he will be in Hobbs at 11:00 a.m. and in Roswell at 8:00 p.m. It doesn't say where.

Whoever pulled that rabbit out of their...um, hat did a good job in my opinion.

[kralspaces]

Daisy, you should be able to hear him from your front porch.

[saw]

It appears that he will be at CGP at 8P till 9P. Is it a secret because I have not heard anything about other than this site.

I don't see him on any of the event schedules.

[Daisy]

It's on his schedule on Facebook, so you would think it would be on a UFO Festival schedule, huh? :pinch:

[mfish]

So he's playing the Fireworks show - NOT the UFO Festival ...

[saw]

While Renee is preaching doom and gloom, Julie states "It's going to be a good year"

[mfish]

Just heard from a friend that there seems to be some "unrest" amongst the Sertomans regarding properly funding the Fireworks Show (you know, the show they voluntarily took over to make sure it would be a success every year?) so funds are light there, too.

And it's too late to do any outside fundraising ... {sigh} another day in Roswell .... these petty little pissing contests are the things I do NOT miss about that town.

[saw]

The kickoff, one week from today.

Maybe I am looking at the wrong places but it seems like to me that has been very little advertising or publicity this year.

Anybody seen anything?

[saw]

Wonder if the article that is in today's RDR quopting the Mayor will go around the globe as fast as the last one did about the UFO festival.

[mfish]

Too little, too late I'm afraid, Saw.

And I'd sure like to know Jurney's definition of support, and his time line on his claim that the city has long supported the festival ... when Owen was mayor, he made sure he was out of town over that weekend.

[saw]

It is my understanding that he (the mayor) and many others, myself included, want to see the city out of the position of "running" the festival. He has said that the city would provide lodgers tax funds for advertising to a legit group, a non-profit, a committee, etc. that would take over the "running" of the festival.

My thoughts, let the UFO Museum do the serious stuff and then another group(s) do the fun stuff. The city would chip in some bucks for advertising. Then a "master committee" would be appointed to oversee and referee.

The committee would resolve conflicts in scheduling,etc.

The advertising bucks that the city would supply would be aimed at the whole project and not just one area.

I also think that the folks (motels, eating places, bars, UFO merchants, etc.) that profit from the festival should be more involved in chipping in some bucks.

[mfish]

In other words, you'd like to see it go back the way it was intially laid out - and I agree. Except initially, the UFO committee got very little from the city in the way of support or funding, Saw. That's what I was referring to with my comment.

[saw]

Today's RDR contain the "official guidebook" for the UFO festival which was produced by Richard Jacques Productions/ Amazing Roswell UFO Festival Guide.

This booklet (55-7X10 pages of slick paper plus cover) gave special thanks to Stu Pritchard, Mayor Sam LaGrone, Rick Johnson and Company, and Starline Printing Company.

It contains thousands of dollars worth of advertising. Richard Jacques is also a member of the committee. I guess we will have to wait and see just how much money it put in the till for the Festival later.

The booklet does not, unless I missed it, mention Mayor Del Journey or the the UFO Museum or any of the Museum's programs.

The website that it mentions, ufofestivalroswell.com, states it is under construction on my machine. I have lost count on how many websites there are. One of them is for sale.

Krumland is also having a celebration July 3 with celebrity appearances by Adrienne Barbeau and Julian Sands along with free hot dogs, hamburgers and givaways.

[saw]

ufofestival.com states that it is for sale if anyone is interested.

[mfish]

Not worth much without the word "ROSWELL" in it ...

[Daisy]

Shame on you mfish - that wasn't nice at all....a lot of us like it here. :cool:

[Lebo]

Maybe I've missed something, but I think Fish was referring to searching on the web. Without the word "Roswell" in it, the search would not be as specific.

[Daisy]

No, I'm the one who missed something here - I thought he said "with the Roswell in it" instead of without and didn't know he was talking about searching. Thought he was 'dissin' my town, man. Thanks, Lebo.

mfish, I apologize and do hereby "de-shame' you....:smk3:

[mfish]

Well, "ufo festival" can mean almost anything anywhere ...

ROSWELL ufo festival - is the money phrase ... Does that make more sense, Daisy?

[Daisy]

Yep, I get it now - some days I'm sharp as a tack, some days dull as a brick. I would blame it on old age, but I think I've always been this way.....:pinch:

[Daisy]

So, did any of you attend all or some of the events? If so, what are your thoughts on this years UFO Festival?

[Jim]

I did not attend the UFO Festival. Was there an event that celebrated the Declaration of Independence and the 54 brave patriots that signed it? I think that's what the July 4th holiday is all about. Perhaps the fireworks show was for that purpose.

Does anyone submit an accounting of how much this festival cost versus any return or profit? Does the city recover any of its costs? If money is made who gets it ..... motels and local businesses? Does it provide enough add'l lodger taxes to compensate for the lodger tax money used?

It did get Roswell national publicity. I think the RDR article said we came in 4th on the list of the wackiest things to do on this holiday.

[Neil]

So, did any of you attend all or some of the events? If so, what are your thoughts on this years UFO Festival?

I was on duty for the firework display, and was amazed how many of the vendors at the park said that they barely made enough to cover their costs for the 3 days, and wouldn't be back next year.

[Alfdom]

I was working but I did see the fireworks display. The fireworks are nice to look at and the crowd did enjoy them. To burn that much money is extravgant to me. The concert area had inflatable structures for little kids and I did see many using them. My sons found nothing in the area to interest them on July, 3. The crowd that watched the concert was not large, but the speakers were loud enough that people did not have to be close to hear it. I was working most of the festival time so I did not see any of the civic center or the mall activities and missed the parade.

Here is a picture from the area last night. http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/125206857.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0ZRYP5X5F6FSMBCCSE82&Expires=1278360725&Signature=w22SaRv0SmDEOyvpR%2B7O4X30aOE%3D

[samsara]

I didnt think that this years was any fun. I attended two of the days with friends from out of state and was bored within an hour. A lot of the stuff was repeated from years past so it wasnt really original or new. The only thing I found interesting was ENMU-Rs booth because it was something exciting.

[saw]

So far I have not heard any of those outlandish crowd estimates, like 10,000 folks watched the parade or there was 25,000 folks at CGP.

Maybe in Tuesdays paper.

[Daisy]

I don't think we're going to hear that this year. I think turnout may have been low this year and the UFO committee will blame the mayor, even though he never said it would be cancelled this year or in the future. Ms. Roach has been blaming him for the last few weeks and I bet it will continue. People can get vengeful and pissy when their funding is cut.

[Barry Foster]

Does it provide enough add'l lodger taxes to compensate for the lodger tax money used?

The estimate that I was told was that if every motel room in Roswell were full for the full 4 days that we would recieve $20,000 in additional lodgers taxes. $20,000 for $150,000 spent, although I will concede that some additional tourist will come because of the advertising of the festival and they will come throughout the year rather than during the festival, I do not believe that it will make up the difference of a $130,000 that the city contributed to the festival. I also do not know if every motel was 100% full over the days of the festival.

[Daisy]

Thank you for posting, Councilor Foster. I agree with you that the city is not getting a high enough return on its investment and don't think it should be funding the Festival as much as it has in the past.

I'd bet every motel room was not filled, as we seem to have an overabundance of motels now.

[Neil]

So far I have not heard any of those outlandish crowd estimates, like 10,000 folks watched the parade or there was 25,000 folks at CGP.

Maybe in Tuesdays paper.

I was there at about 6pm on the 4th. At a guess there were less than 100 people inside the park.
As the evening progressed lots of cars arrived and parked on the streets outside the park to watch the fireworks.

[Jim]

Sounds like it's a money loser for the city at a time when we need to be tightening our belt. Turnout doesn't sound so great either.

Were those firemen that worked all week to set-up the fireworks on duty and paid by the city to do that? It was in Tue's RDR. What did that cost?

[saw]

$20,000 in additional lodgers tax equals $400,000 in additional hotel revenues.

$400,000 divided by four nights equals $100,000 per night. $70.00 per night is the average room rate in Roswell according to the IRS but they all bump their rates for this weekend. At $84.00 that would equal 1190 additional rooms rented per night for a town that might have a total of 1500 rooms to rent. July's lodgers tax has never been $20,000 more than that of June's. There has not been a time that all of the rooms in Roswell have been full for four days during a festival.

It seems like the city has some very optimistic estimators.

I don't think that the city has ever revealed how much the extra labor has cost.

The mayor has never to my knowledge has ever said that he would be cutting the budget for the festival but has said that he did not favor it being run by the city. That is what Renee's problem is I believe.

[mfish]

This is a tired old argument. And I'm tired of having to explain this to any "new" group of experts who come along at any given time who "think" they "know" what's best for Roswell's one and only festival ... but here goes, one more time ...:

The UFO Festival's "return on investment" (ROI) is not going to satisfy anyone with "instantaneous gratification obsession."

If you're expecting to make all your investment back during the week of the festival I strongly suggest you go find something else to obsess over.

The year-long payback from having the festival (provided it's done in a classy way), the museum, and any other "attraction" in Roswell - (UFO - related or otherwise) is what needs to be considered when trying to play bean-counter and "fiscal conservative" with the numbers.

Also needed to be placed in the ROI equation is the amount of publicity the city garners (again, year-long) - and there are formulas that one can use to determine the "dollar value" of the article or write-up (depending on the publication and it's circulation). If an article hits a national magazine, that one example of publicity alone can worth tens of thousands of dollars to the city.

And, the OTAB money - lodger's tax funds - cannot be spent on anything other than things that bring more visitors to Roswell - that fund cannot be moved to the general fund, for instance, or the police budget, or the fireman budget. Evidently, the folks who set up the lodger's tax funds knew what kind of games "experts" liked to lay with other levels of taxation, so they made this one almost impervious to being raided for the sake of someone trying to act like they're fiscally responsible.

Without lodgers, there would be no tax collected, and there would be no fund. So that's why the money HAS to be spent on events, structures, etc. that bring people in to stay in motels.

So everyone who seems to think they're being "responsible" by questioning the festival, you're really not. In fact, if you want to actually BE responsible, I encourage each and every one of you to get up and start helping the few who still care about the festival, find a way to make the festival a real, bonafide, exciting weekend in Roswell ...

Everyone needs to put their personal greed, personal agendas, personal relationships, and self-serving needs aside and start looking at the BIG PICTURE: Making the UFO Festival a success once again. That may be a tall order for Roswell, quite frankly ... Quit worrying about whether or not your current love interest needs a printing job. Quit worrying about whether "your business" is going to see most of the visitors (if you have what they're looking for, you will). Quit worrying about your kid's band, and whether or not you can squeeze them into a concert line-up - at the expense of the headliner. Quit worrying about "what's in it for ME" and start thinking about what's best for Roswell (a novel concept, but hey - a guy can dream ...)

And in the process, you HAVE to remember - "success" is not measured by income alone.

[samsara]

I think that the people that are responsible for putting this thing together arent doing their jobs. They have the same exact things year after year like as if coming up with new ideas is unfathomable. Its those peoples jobs to put this together and everyone else who participates to make it interesting and classy. I think questioning the festival is what people should be doing, if not people get away with doing things in a mediocre fashion. And as soon as the city says they might not be putting money into it since its not making any money back people automatically cry foul, because it IS about money, thats whats makes the world go round and we need it to keep out of debt. And maybe questioning the integrity of the festival will make those who are responsible get into gear since people dont like what they are currently doing with the image of Roswell.

[mfish]

Samsara, instead of armchair quarterbacking, why don't you get involved and plan some new events?

[samsara]

If I had the time and it were my job yes. But there are people being paid for this exact thing and they arent doing it.

[mfish]

Last time I checked, there was one person being paid - everyone else was a volunteer. And when it started, EVERYONE was a volunteer.

But I expected nothing more than your response.

[saw]

Six of the 16 members of the committee get a check from the city. One of them, the secretary is full time for 2 or 3 months. Then there is the markingting director that got $15,000 last year and the budget included $10,000 for this year.

This is the problem as I see it.

Fish you live out of town, did you see any advertising that would make you want to come to Roswell for the 4th of July weekend. Did you see anything in the Festival program that would bring you to Roswell? Would you come to Roswell when you can't book three nights in a row at one hotel?

Roswell is competing with all of the towns in the surrounding area and unless you are a UFO buff has nothing to offer that all of the other towns are not offering. Carnival, parade, musical impersonators, etc., nothing new or different.

Can Roswell attract a "big time headliner" with no place to hold a large crowd? The July weather is risky at best for any outdoor events. Then if we can attract a big crowd where do we put them. Less than 1500 rooms don't go very far.

I heard (this is a rumor) that the city had give the carnival a revenue guarantee to get them to come. If that is true the festival is a flop.

I am not talking about the UFO museum in the above comments because they seem to have their program in order. I believe that the UFO Museum is the draw for the out of town folks and not what the city has been trying to do.

Someone, anyone got any suggestions?

[shotgun]

CONGRATS TO ALL WHO WORKED ON THIS YEARS UFO FESTIVAL, JOB WELL DONE!

I attended a lot of the events, every hotel room was filled, resturants busy and downtown business looking good.

I tell everyone I know of a man named Walt Disney who had an idea about a mouse no one knew about, and the mouse wasn't even real...........Mickey Mouse and his many friends live on, and bring a lot of enjoyment to millions every year. It also made billions of dollars:shoot:

[saw]

Ever hotel room was not filled for all four nights. We will have to wait until next month and see what the lodgers tax did in July then we will know just how much of a sucess the festival was. The lodgers tax has dropped every year for July since the 2007 festival. The gross receipts tax has dropped ever year for July since the 2007 festival.

This does not make any allowances for inflation nor an increase in hotel rates.

[mfish]

There you go again, Saw with your instantaneous gratification issues...

And to answer your question - NO, I didn't see any advertising for the Festival this year, and live in what could easily be called a "target" market (New Mexico in general advertises in this market regularly).

[Daisy]

I don't think saw is looking for instant gratification at all. How many years now has the city been putting this thing on? The numbers (and saw knows his numbers) haven't shown that it has been that much of a success.

I still think the UFO Museum should be in charge of this and the city could help with funding - and not near as much funding.

But then, I don't have friends or enemies in either camp...:smk3:

I'm still having a problem with you seeing NO advertising in your area, mfish. Where WAS it advertised???

[mfish]

In order to truly grasp the effect of a festival (ANY festival in any town), you have to have a "big picture mentality" and see the residual positive impact as well as the immediate impact.

"Execution" has been seriously lacking from what I've been told over the past few years - a few events, like the costume contest, are still doing well (but the Museum and Art Center does all the work on that ... go figure) ...

Put the UFO Museum totally in charge of the festival, and that'll guarantee the end of the festival. Oh, sure - they'll bring in their speakers and help pimp books for some of their hand-picked "experts," but unless you are a serious ET chaser, there won't be a "festival" per se, if the museum gets control (and their hand will be out BIG TIME, too).

[shotgun]

Mfish, well stated!

All year the big attraction in Roswell is the UFO Museum. People come from all over, it's a big draw and could be a big business and no one gets it:shoot:

[saw]

I do not think that the UFO Museum should be in charge of the festival but I do think that the City and the Museum have to stop butting heads. The city is spending big bucks for speakers while the museum is doing the same thing.

One brite spot, an individual in the accomodations business said that their business was up 4% over last year but they still were not up to 100% capacity at any time.

The museum is big business for Roswell along with it's spinoffs like the shops, motels, bars, and eating places. The last that I heard the museum was claiming 160,000 visitors per year. I think last year they said that they had some 7500 folks visit the museum during the festival.

Somebody has to come up with something that will draw large area crowds for that period and that Roswell can afford. If we fill all of the rooms in Roswell we still will not have large crowds.

[Daisy]

Who do you think should run it, saw?

The museum had its own vendors, music and attractions and did it for way less than the city. The museum is the big draw and will be even bigger when the new one is finished.

After the new museum is built, they will have more room to put on more activities. I think they would do a good job and hopefully could do it for less than what has recently been done.

[Reneé Roach]

Per Toni Wiebenga's request, I am making my first post on Talk Roswell...before you all have time to read the Roswell Daily Record article and rip me to shreds for making the decision to retire from the UFO Festival Committee.

I just wanted to clarify a few statements in previous posts...and have the opportunity to tell a little portion of my side of the story. First, I want to make it very clear that I DO NOT GET PAID TO CHAIR OR SERVE ON THE UFO FESTIVAL COMMITTEE...I have served for the last four years per the invitation of the Mayor in that capacity (except for in 2008 when I requested the appointment).

In 2006 the UFO Museum Board of Directors approached Mayor LaGrone requesting for the City to take over the coordination of the UFO Festival due to the financial burden it was causing the UFO Museum and the stress on the Executive Director.

Zach Montgomery, City Planner at the time, recommended that I chair the planning committee. I declined due to the fact that I had no previous experience so Zach offered to co-chair the committee and share his experience since he had been involved with the 2005 & 2006 events' coordination and served on the UFO Museum Board of Directors. Zach requested for Mayor LaGrone to request $50,000 of lodger's tax funding for advertising purposes and suggested that we would approach the Council at mid-year to evaluate if additional funding would be needed after sponsorships were solicited and secured.

One month after I accepted the position to co-chair the 2007 event, I found out that I was pregnant, so Zach suggested that we invite Stan Crosby, who had been an integral member of the 50th Anniversary Festival Planning Committee to work with me and take over my position during the event since my baby was due to be born one week prior to the Festival. Stan was elected to serve as the Committee "Treasurer", as well, because he was employed by a financial institution.

Zach was the meeting faciliator and continued to hold 3 hour bashing sessions about the UFO Museum and Julie Shuster and attempted to bully me and the City's contracted advertising agency, Rick Johnson & Co (yes, the big bad OUT OF TOWN advertising agency that dared to to the City's advertised RFP...OMG! What were they thinking?!) into using the $50,000 advertising budget for a full page Washington Post or New York Times advertisement for the alleged Alien Apex Resort that never had a financial backer...so after repeated requests to stop his bashing and bullying, City managers removed him from the committee...he did "not" resign, he was "removed".

Stan continued to accept funding requests made by committee members so committee members continued to make commitments to vendors and entertainers because they had received his approval.

Halfway down the planning road, I asked Stan why he accepted the position to Chair the committee and he stated, "Vindication. I want revenge with Bill Owen for not approving the funding for the billboards contract that Tom Jennings verbally agreed to fund after the 50th Anniversary event."

Needless to say, three months before the event, Stan resigned and got his revenge. He took all of his "financial records" along with him. After many sleepless hours, I discovered that Stan had overcommitted the committee and the City by hundreds of thousands of dollars...after the mid-year budget adjustments had been approved. Mayor LaGrone called a special City Council Meeting to order to request the additional funding to honor the commitments. That's when we all were awarded the wonderful headlines "UFO FESTIVAL, $60,000 OVER BUDGET" across the PR Newswire.

Now, I was the last WOman standing, very pregnant, and no one to carry out the duties. Guy Malone, Christian ufologist stepped up to the plate. Yes, the researcher and author that Julie Shuster says is "not credible...is a leader of a cult"...and who was also the person who stood his ground about not insults against Julie or the UFO Museum in any meetings. Not only did he carry out the duties of the committee chairperson, he coordinated his own UFO Conference including many of Julie Shuster's recognized "credible" ufologists...who to this day, say have never been treated with so much hospitality as when Guy was the coordinator.

The next year I requested that Mayor LaGrone appoint me to chair and carry out the 2008 UFO Festival from start to finish to show that I can monitor a budget and facilitate positive meetings. I sent invitations to every organization in the Roswell Community to appoint a representative to serve on the planning committee...how many do you think volunteered? Only, Roswell's most valuable volunteer, Ms. Rita Kane-Doerhoefer who enthusiastically volunteered her time, talent and resources, like she does for every important endeavor in Roswell, but most representatives had to be convinced due to the time commitment and lack of community support...the positive headlines surely didn't help. We did manage to get Jack Swickard to serve on the planning committee to represent the UFO Museum and once awarded the requested LODGER'S TAX FUNDING (thank you Mike Fisher for clarifying its purpose and regulations) we earmarked $15,000 for the UFO Museum's activities. I know that many of you believe that it is not necessary to advertise -- which will require a whole separate lengthy post -- but typically, a third of an event budget is allocated for MARKETING...but I'll leave that for you to criticize later.

Throughout the course of the planning and as we awaited a response from the UFO Museum if they were going to accept our funding allocation and what they would be activities they would be coordinating (so we could publicize them), many local ufologists expressed their concern that the UFO Museum would not recognize them as credible researchers in the field of ufology and would not invite them to be a part of their conferences -- Dr. Donald Burleson, New Mexico State MUFON Director was one of them. These researchers were invited by conferences in other cities and countries, but always excluded from the UFO Museum; therefore, another organization approached the City to organize a speakers conference that would include these local ufologists and others in the field that the UFO Museum did not deem "credible" but were recognized world-wide as such. When we received the news from Jack Swickard that the Museum would not accept the funding for their activities, we accepted the proposal from the Ce4 Group to organize a speakers conference.

Contrary to Mr. Sullins opinions (I know you're my biggest fan, Arville:naughty:), all financial decisions for the UFO Festival funding is made in a proper bureaucratic fashion with a COMMITTEE VOTE...I did not PERSONALLY decide to spend any lodger's tax dollars allocated for the UFO Festival on a reception for celebrities, international media representatives, entertainers, UFO Museum Board of Directors (declined by Julie throwing the invitations in the garbage), the entire committee made that decision...although, it never is a question at any professional conferences like the New Mexico Municipal League or the Governor's Conference on Tourism to purchase glow in the dark ice cubes, appetizers and a cocktail for the attendees...only at the UFO Festival. The receptions were designed to give the celebrities, authors, presenters, entertainers, ufologists and community leaders personal interview time with major media representatives and networking opportunities for their future endeavors.

In 2009, Mayor LaGrone invited me to chair the committee (and NOT BECAUSE WE'RE SPECIAL FRIENDS, ARVILLE...:no3:) and I accepted because I felt that we had built some momentum and mainly because the same planning committee in 2008 agreed to serve again in 2009 with exception to Jack Swickard. Again I sent invitations to community members, and again, no one came running excited to give up their free time or roll up their sleeves.

We approached MUFON to organize the first "Roswell MUFON Speakers Conference" thinking that it was a neutral organization that would bring the UFO Museum, the City and local researchers together for the greater good of Roswell. Unfortunately, the UFO Museum again refused to work together. Again we sent a letter offering funding for their activities and again they denied our requests. Furthermore, some of their "sanctioned speakers" requested for us to advertise their lectures and I was "reprimanded" by Julie, personally, for doing so. UFO Museum speakers, celebrity guests and vendors were sent a threatening email by Julie that if any of them were to join any of the "City's" activities, then they would not be able to speak or sell their products at the UFO Museum ever again. I also had 10 Jefferson Starship concert tickets and After Party Invitations delivered to Julie to distribute at her discretion only to have them ripped up and thrown at my assistant's face.

This year's advertising efforts were concentrated on digital media placements that were behaviorally and contextually targeted...for example with the LA Times, Houston Chronicle, New York Times, CNN, next to an article that is UFO, Space, scientific or travel related, which was very successful because those efforts were the reasons we were recognized by Trip Advisor, Time Magazine, ABC, MSNBC and many more which I will be so happy to show you in my wrap up report. Digital marketing is less expensive and much more effective with a smaller budget (yes, $60,000 is a small budget for advertising with international media when the average placement is $10,000- remember, we are targeting overnight visitors who pay LODGER'S TAX which is what pays for the UFO Festival--that's why we do not concentrate the majority of our advertising dollars on local or regional media placements because they do not reach people who stay overnight... ). We also placed an ad in America Way Magazine (distributed to over 75,000 American Airlines aircrafts, reservation centers and members) and New Mexico magazine. We also spent $4000 on regional radio advertising...and yes, we used our contracted advertising agency to provide these services because they were awarded the contract to provide the services and it certainly wouldn't make sense to go out for bid for every single media placement over the amount of $1500 so that we could abide by State procurement laws and regulations when an agency was awarded the contract to do that for us. If a local agency is awarded the bid for advertising services in the future -- the ideal situation! HELLO! -- then they can make the reservations for those media placements.

I made the announcement that I would not be available to serve on or chair the UFO Festival planning committee next year not because of any animosity towards the current administration but because I have sacrificed my free time and worked so many extra hours for 4 years and I need a break...but what really perplexes me is that many of you are so eager to criticize our (particularly MY) efforts when you have never once volunteered your time to help with the planning or execution of the UFO Festival in the four years that I've been involved...with exception to Mike Fisher, who really does have room to talk but you, Mike, of all people, should be a bit more understanding of the people who are trying to make this work without being so critical...but I guess if you were treated by the City and the Community the way that the Talk Roswell Commuity has treated me and the UFO Festival Committee, I can understand your bitterness. I want you to know that we all recognize you as a founding father, Mike...and we do Stan, as well, he just sort of "left us with the bag" so to speak. I'm sure that in time you will get the recognition that you rightly deserve for your contributions to Roswell...I'm just sorry it hasn't happened earlier.

Hope this finds you all with open minds and serving hearts...really, if you have time to criticize people's efforts on these posts, you most definitely have time to volunteer your service to improve the UFO Festival. Bottomline, if the hotels and businesses do not feel that the event is valuable to their economic viability....then we really don't need to waste our time or lodger's tax revenues on continuing or criticizing the event...but somebody needs to ask them, first.

[mfish]

Well stated, Renee - assuming your feedback is accurate (and based on what I know and remember of the players, I do not doubt your account at all).

So once again - personal agendas, personal gain, and personal ego have all had much to do with the stagnant atmosphere of the UFO Festival.

Thanks for voicing your concerns and frustrations.

[Daisy]

Thank you, Renee, for posting your side of the story.

I'm assuming (and I could be wrong) that you did most of the UFO Festival planning and preparation during the day from 9:00 - 5:00, so in effect you were getting paid as a city employee. I'm sure you had a lot to do after hours, too, as this is a huge endeavor, but when you were working on the Festival during the day, you were not a volunteer, but a paid city employee, right? As I said, I'm assuming that all the work didn't happen before and after your day job.

As for volunteers, I'd be willing to bet that had you sent out a request (such as the RDR and radio and here on Talk Roswell) to the citizens of Roswell for help, many people would have stepped up. Not many regular citizens even knew that volunteers were needed, as there was never a mention of that anywhere that I saw. I agree with you that Rita is the best - she's the 'go to' person for many of us in Roswell!

I have to say that I disagree with the way advertising was handled. It seems to me that more should have been done in the surrounding states. Denver, Phoenix, Dallas, Austin and other nearby cities are more than a day trip to Roswell and it's my opinion that those areas should have been targeted, rather than L.A. or New York - it just makes more sense to me personally.

I'm sorry that you and others feel you are being 'attacked' when people on the forum state their opinions. I don't see it that way - as I stated in my email, when you are in a postion of leadership, you have to expect that there will always be those who disagree with some (or even most) of your decisions. I comes with the territory. It doesn't mean you are being attacked just because someone disagrees with you. I learned long ago that no one can please everyone, so we do the best we can and if some disagree, that's okay. We should never expect ALL praise and no disagreement...it just doesn't work that way.

Again, thank you for posting your story - I found it very interesting and learned many things I didn't know before. Putting on such a huge event takes a lot of time and effort and I totally understand your decision to stop doing it. Time for someone else to take the ball and run with it - hopefully a private organization, with the city helping a bit from the Lodger's Tax.

[cgoode]

Guy Malone chiming in also .. my only post on this forum (which I usually only check in on when the Sunday night e-mail comes) to-date was that I am the person who asked (then) mayoral candidate Del Jurney if he had a position on the UFO Festival.

I am also owner/admin of http://www.RoswellUFOfestival.com which I registered in 2004 I believe (the "master schedule" which RDR cuts and pastes every year since in The Vision and/or their website without crediting), and the domain http://www.RoswellUFOcrash.com (which contains the content of the lecture I gave this year, still publicly giving kudos to Mike Fisher).

As you might surmise from those unique urls, I have a unique grasp of the obvious ;)

First off, here is my post on RDR website replying to the May 30 article "City may withdraw from UFO Festival" (that got all the national attention)
It's the ROSWELL UFO Festival ...
> “I’m looking at a $70,000 or $75,000 budget,” said Julie Shuster, director of the museum. “That brings in celebrity guests, all the authors and everybody that WE need. WE have a packed house.”

WE being the UFO Museum I'll propose, but that doesn't exactly pack the entire city, or the hotels.

Has everyone forgotten that the 2006 UFO Festival (before City involvement) was the worst joke ever? I went to the intersection of 2nd and Main many times and you couldn't see more than 50 ppl at any given time on Saturday. And there was plenty of elbow room in the UFO Museum then too, btw. People were asking me who to write to complain to with comments like "I came all this way and that's all there is to do?"

Please officials, compare the hotel occupancy numbers of 2005 and 2006 to every year since in making your decisions. If the UFO Museum has "a packed house" these days it's largely thanks to The City's efforts and other non-UFO Museum (same speakers every year after year, that draw a limited crowd) efforts. The differing events are complimentary, and the need for multiple events and variety is what makes people come, and come back, and tell their friends "there was so much to do, we couldn't do it all - we have to go back!" IF The City drops out, AND The UFO Museum already has a $75,000 budget, then Mr Huckabee's proposed $40-$50K should definitely go to a 3rd party perhaps non-governmental entity that will ensure there are attractions and events all around The City for people to attend. It's called the ROSWELL UFO Festival, not the UFO Museum Festival.

Point being, a "solely" UFO Museum-controlled Festival will ride the wave created by The City's efforts of the last 4 years for awhile, then probably just wane back to pre-City involvement attendance, and bad word of mouth from attendees, same as 2006 produced. I think people have forgotten that that bad word of mouth advertising is exactly why Mayor LaGrone decided The City needed to step up the activities and promotional efforts for 2007 and beyond. I'm glad to see how much more effort the UFO Museum has put into Festivals since 2006, but I'm guessing it's because they had to step up to the perceived "competition," otherwise 2007-present would likely have been very small-scale and poorly attended. Hopefully counselors and City officials will support all that's going on, but not let all the eggs rest in one basket ever again. guymalone@gmail.com

(Addendum for Talk Roswell - using archive.org, you can search the schedules of all previous UFO Festivals (I may post them later for you) - in 2006 The UFO Museum had 2 lectures daily, 10:30am, and 5:00pm. Since City involvement, they have had between 6-10 lectures daily. Competition is indeed great for the consumer / tourist! Altho ONLY the UFO Museum sees it as competition.. I am of the philosophy "when the water level rises, ALL the boats rise" ...)

Here is my post on the RDR website replying to the June 18 article "UFO Fest takes a tumble"

How does a $150,000 expenditure disappear without a discussion?

What I don't get is How did the $150,000 get removed from the 2011 budget in the first place? Matt (or anyone) please correct me if I'm wrong, but I've heard that most of the Councilors didn't know it was removed when they approved the budget that made the original headline. They assumed it was there like always, but no one publicly motioned to remove it, or to reduce it, and none of our Council members voted on this either way.

Who proposes and itemizes the budget they did vote on? Who seconded that idea, and who approved it without this very discussion taking place first in a Council meeting where it belongs, instead of the RDR - and "the blogosphere"?

Matt, please investigate how the $150,000 got removed in the first place, and was it via a legal process? To me THIS is THE STORY that's being passed over. Councilors should review and discuss the money every year, of course, but it appears that the decision to remove the $150,000 was made undemocratically, without discussion or debate, and in secret. Who has the power to do that, and does their job/office/position legally permit them to do so? I'd like to suggest that a City Councilor or two simply motion to add it back in - since they didn't know originally - and bring the entire $150,000 to a vote immediately, THEN start the process of discussing the amount, openly, democratically, and legally.

I likewise e-mailed this to Matt Arco, Acone (RDR crime reporter) and editor Charles Fischer, and got no response from any of them and saw no follow-up stories reflecting this line of investigation.

Apparently it cost me RDR coverage of my event this year however. Altho the note in The Vision claimed their published schedule was pasted from http://www.ufofestivalroswell.com (City site) my lecture series at the Roswell Public Library - which Elaine Mayfield can attest has been on their site ever since it was posted - was deleted from what the RDR published this year.

Just a little background for you. I'll respond to Renee's post soon.
-g-

[cgoode]

Re: Renee's first post

Firstly, I attest that her version of the events that I have been able participate in or personally witness since my 2006 involvement (remind me to post the story of how I got involved sometime! Involves Julie and Dusty back when they were not amiable, ha ha) is un-biased and extremely accurate. It is only her character and "high road" attitude all these years that has kept her from revealing what she has here, and I'd say she's barely revealed the tip of the iceberg in this post.

Secondly, while Renee is of course a paid City employee, she spends most of her 9-5 on the RCVB, KRB, and her role as City's PR officer. I can personally attest that she does at least 75% of her work on the UFO Festival after hours, on her own time. I just searched my Gmail for e-mails from Renee, and instead of displaying the actual number, it simply says

1 - 20 of hundreds Older ›

which I've never seen Gmail do before. I've only been using Gmail since this spring btw, so anything prior this year is of course not included in this number. I'd guess 97% of these are Festival-related (we don't take time to funny forward each other).

My point in posting these details is to attest that the bulk of them are late at night .. I work nights and we communicate on details often via e-mail AFTER I get home (appx midnight) and personally attest that she is usually up past 3am working on The Festival, and have occasionally seen her attend 9am meetings on NO SLEEP at all. Time will tell, but I can nearly guarantee that whoever replaces her, WILL NOT serve the UFO Festival Committee with this level of unpaid time nor commitment.

Also, Mayor LaGrone and Renee have personally met with UFO Museum board and Julie several times to attempt to "heal the breech" which Julie alone initiated. They (or "she" I'd argue) have indeed repeatedly refused to co-operate in the obviously most sensible and marketing savvy terms which would make all of Roswell look like a good place to visit. Renee also spends much of her time these past years (secretly, to not incur yet more of Julie's wrath) providing global press with positive info about the UFO Museum and it's events year-round, because global press come to Renee by the droves saying "they can't get Julie or anyone at the UFO Museum to respond to them."

In my opinion, Julie considers the UFO Festival a "proprietary" event belonging solely to The UFO Museum, not all of Roswell - which is quite funny considering The UFO Museum refused to participate in the festival until it's third year (1997). Mike Fisher can clarify / tell that story much better, but my understanding in the the Festival originated solely on the efforts of Mike Fisher, Cory Beck, Stan Crosby, and Mike Satterfield in 1995. With Dusty in her corner now, my opinion is that they are waiting for and pro-actively trying to engineer The City's withdrawal, so that the event will again be UFO Museum-centric - which as I've already detailed, is potentially a disastrous situation, at least as far as attendance and repeat visitors.

As for marketing, of course the money is spent on out-of-state potential hotel buying tourists. I had someone send me on telephone pic and ad they saw this spring in the Orlando airport, for instance. I subscribe to Google News alerts, and receive about 20 e-mails daily for every news article that has the words "Roswell" "UFO festival" and/or my name. And it is on these genre-market-specific stories which people interested in UFOs actually read, I see the ingeniously placed electronic banner ads for the UFO Festival in some of the highest clicked on news sources in the world.

She mentioned that usually 1/3 of a budget is marketing .. I have attend UFO Conferences (which are mainly only lecture series, with no other activities) in San Fransisco, Washing DC-area, Arkansas, Florida, Texas, and Aztec NM off the top of my head. The highest attended one year-in-and-out is The "for-profit" Bay Area UFO Expo, and event organizer Victoria Jack told me that her business plan budgets TWO-THIRDS of the event's profit on marketing the next one.

I was at the press conference where "Mayor Jurney affirmed Festival support" and at least two reporters kept hammering Renee for the reasons WHY the City and UFO Museum do not work together. She detailed the repeated years of offers of both money and co-operation. Again, the reporters asked WHY the UFO Museum refused all this co-operative efforts, and Renee FINALLY - calmly, bravely and without any hint of malice - responded, simply "ask her."

I haven't seen anything to indicate that they have, nor that they are letting the public know that the reasons for the "schism" are all rooted in Julie's attitude. So much for courage in journalism.

Finally, I'll add that I affirm Renee's decision to step down after this year. It's not a decision she made lightly, or even recently. If she were paid an additional $25,000 per year in addition to her present salary, it would not be enough to cover the work she has done the past 4 1/2 years.

Take a break Renee, and good luck to the rest of Roswell replacing her. You won't know what you had til it's gone.

Guy Malone
guymalone@gmail.com
http://www.RoswellUFOfestival.com
http://www.RoswellUFOcrash.com

[Daisy]

Thank you for posting, Mr. Malone and for stating your knowlege of the hours worked by Ms. Roach on the Festival.

I'm hoping someone from the UFO Museum will post their side of the story here, as well. There seems to be a lot of unnecessary animosity between the Festival people and the Museum people. It would have been great if all those involved had set aside their personal agendas and grievances for the good of the city. There was a letter to the editor in today's paper about that very thing. But, I guess, people being people, we won't see that happen.

[Serio Aldenevich]

Thank you Mrs. Roach for that informative post. Are you a city employee? Is that part of your job description? Probably not since you resigned. Were you paid overtime by the city for your work on the UFO Festival? Is that included as part of the festival cost?

It sounds very complicated with many people involved. Sorry you had all those problems.

[Serio Aldenevich]

Whoops ... read Mr. Malone's post and he says only 25% of Mrs. Roach's time as a city employee was spent on Festival activities.

[Daisy]

Yep, but that's just as far as he knows. I think it might be quite a bit more than that myself, but I'm just guessing. :smk3:

[mfish]

Actually, the UFO Museum got involved with the festival from the beginning, although not a huge presence until 1997. The first "festival" - 1995 - was held in DeBremmond Field with a "UFO Race" down the street to the west of DeBremmond as the civic center was not completed at that time.

In 1996, the civic center opened, and the second annual festival was held at the civic center. The UFO museum brought in some speakers and helped a great deal with the planning of the schedules - they also put up some much needed cash to help secure the venues and speakers and such. 1997 was of course, the "big daddy" and the festival developed a life of its own ... The State Tourism Department sent folks into town to assist with the handling of the media - it was that crazy.

The UFO Museum was an important part of the festival for the first three years. They were very involved in 1998, too. Again, with much needed up-front money and support.

In 1999, the event took a turn for the worse, as Johnny Johnson was "running" the civic center, and insisted on "running" the festival, too. He "ran" it into the ground. That was a bleak year for the UFO Festival.

I think it was 2000 that the chamber took the reigns. They tried their hand at festival planning for a few years. Charlie Walker did a pretty good job of it - but when he left, it went downhill fast. It was during that time that Merle Haggard started coming to town and had planned to do so annually (until he was blocked out by Julie Shuster's move to tie up all the venues in town, so she could dictate terms and conditions of every event, including the world-class gift horse of "Merle Haggard and Friends" every year) ...

The UFO Museum became contrary to all things "festival" with Julie Shuster coming into the picture. She was laser-focused on bringing in HER speakers, to HER venue, to put money in HER coffers. PERIOD. A "festival" attitude trivialized her "more serious" side of the UFO craze, in her very words, I might add. And, if a notion or theory didn't comply with the agenda of the museum, those contrary people were ostracized by the museum ... I know of several who were ostracized because they had a different "crash site" (or wouldn't sell the one that was originally identified :pinch: ...) theory, or had completely different ideas on the whole UFO concept than the little inner world that Julie Shuster wanted to rule.

Had the originators of the festival been able to tap into the city resources back in 1995, the festival would have had a much more stable foundation from which to grow. But lack of city funding and overall support during those crucial first years made the festival committee a rag-tag bunch of folks who had to use their imagination and street smarts to pull together events. We tried to get MainStreet Roswell involved with no luck. We tried to get the Roswell Mall invovled, with no luck. We tried to get the CITY to help fund the event - with no luck. We were fortunate to have ties to many corporations (local, state and national) that understood the potential of an annual festival in Roswell, and we pulled together the funding needed to pull off the event each year.

I have several people who keep me updated on "all things Roswell" and had heard that when Julie and Zac broke up, the festival almost took a permanent nose dive (see how those personal relationships and agendas can sour a sweet deal?) but I heard that Guy Malone did an exemplary job when he stepped up to the plate, and perhaps Guy is the missing link to finally bring some continuity to the festival - of course, you won't have any support from the Museum, but the Museum will do its own thing as they have in years' past ...

Guy has the contacts, the talent and the vision to make the UFO Festival a great annual event - again.

[Daisy]

Since you were there at the beginning, I appreciate your version of the Festival events, mfish . It seems a lot of mistakes were made and a lot of egos got in the way of what could, by now, be a great event for the city.

That's too bad...

Doesn't sound like it went real well this year - I know I didn't see the large number of people that I usually see while driving by some of the activities.

That's too bad, too...

[cgoode]

I love being corrected .. Andrew Cone (RDR) just spoke with me, and he is doing an article on the schism. Go get 'em tiger! He said he's spoken with about 8 people, and that Julie hasn't returned his call. Surprise. To be fair, she might be on vacation.

[mfish]

I know several people Andrew needs to talk to ... "PM" me for names.

[Daisy]

Andrew Cone (RDR) just spoke with me, and he is doing an article on the schism.

Thanks for the info, cgoode, and way to go, Andrew!! I'm very glad you're back at the paper! :smk3:

[cgoode]

And thank you Mike for the correction of my understanding of 1995 - 1999, before I moved here. And for the kind words. Off to work now - STILL there ....
-g-

[Jim]

Isn't it logical that the UFO museum would be part of the UFO festival? Aren't they a major attraction of the attendees and profit from it? It just seems that the UFO museum, especially those associated with it that personally profit from the festival, should be actively involved including helping with the costs. Who owns the museum?

They need to get all that straighted out and better organized if its going to continue. I'd like to know the actual cost to the city. I hope the RDR story includes that.

Maybe we need a poll re whether the festival should continue or not and whether the city should pay most of the costs.

[cgoode]

Whoops ... read Mr. Malone's post and he says only 25% of Mrs. Roach's time as a city employee was spent on Festival activities.

To clarify, it's not like I'm in her office every day, or even monthly, most of the year. In the weeks and months building up to the Festival, it's probably more than 25%, but year-round, she does have already have a full-time job with RCVB, KRB, and as City's PR officer. That's what she's paid for, that's what consumes most of her time, and like the other "16 City employees" (?) mentioned earlier who do actually get paid (sort of) for their work on the Festival, they all get paid for a completely different full-time job. Elaine Mayfield for instance runs the Zoo, but I know she also tirelessly works on the UFO Festival year-round, nights and weekends.

My only point was to make it known to all how much time "I know of" that Renee (myself, and others) spend on this when not actually at work and are not getting paid for any of it .. however much time Renee has spent on the Festival 9-5, you can probably double or triple that number of hours spent on it during her off-hours over the years.

-g-

[kralspaces]

Take a break Renee, and good luck to the rest of Roswell replacing her. You won't know what you had til it's gone.

Guy Malone
guymalone@gmail.com
http://www.RoswellUFOfestival.com
http://www.RoswellUFOcrash.com

I couldn't agree more. When the UFO Festival dries up and blows away in the dersert wind, Roswell will be the biggest loser.

[Lebo]

It's getting a little deep with Renee continuing to be the victim on these posts. Maybe the following letter, which happened to fall into my webbed little feet via the internet, might shed a different light on who or what is/are the victim(s) here. This letter appears to be a letter from the GM at KOBR-TV to our Mayor with a large complaint about Ms. Roach... Don't blame me, I'm only the messenger, and I haven't checked this out on Snopes to see if it's real or not.

July 9, 2010

Mayor Del Jurney
City of Roswell
425 N. Richardson
Roswell, NM 88201

Dear Mayor Jurney:

It has come to my attention that KOBR was mentioned as a sponsor for the UFO festival but refused because “it wouldn’t be a good return on investment.” I wanted you to know that at no time did KOB or KOBR commit to a sponsorship at any level for the 2010 Roswell UFO Festival. We were offered to become a sponsor but never committed to the sponsorship, mainly because of short notice.

About a month before the festival, Account Executive, Clarissa Gonzalez, approached the City of Roswell’s, Marketing Director, Reneé Roach about doing some advertising for the festival. At that time, Renee mentioned to Clarissa that she wanted KOB to become a sponsor and was suppose to meet with her then next day. Clarissa called and then went to Renee’s office and was not able to get a hold of her. A few days later we received an email from Reneé saying she had sent the proposal to Olivia Lawrence, Local Sales Manager at KOB. That proposal was for KOB to become an exclusive TV station sponsor. Some of the demands for exclusivity were: KOB to give the festival $10,000 in advertising, personal appearances from Steve Stucker, as well as other KOB personalities and some other things. Those types of demands were way beyond the reach of KOB with just 3 weeks notice.

Clarissa informed Reneé that KOB could not do the sponsorship due to short notice, but would like to continue to support the UFO Festival with other methods of advertising available for no cost, such as our community calendar and SE Soundboard. She also offered to match any amount of money spent to advertise on KOBR for the festival. Reneé was booked to appear on the SE Soundboard twice and did not show up for either interview. She also did not send in the information for the Community Calendar. Commercial advertising was purchased by Roswell Parks and Recreation, for musical events at the UFO festival and the order was matched by KOBR.

As you know, KOBR is dedicated to the community and supports it in many ways. For instance, KOBR developed a commercial for the 2010 Census; we provide a community calendar for each city and town. As well as our SE Soundboard, a free “talk show” type of program designed to promote activities throughout SE New Mexico. We also continually provide advertising for non-profits, and community events.

With the international attention the UFO Festival and the City of Roswell receive each year, KOB and KOBR are committed to doing anything and everything possible to make the event a success. However, city leaders and event coordinators must do a better job in terms of communication, commitment, and organization for KOB and KOBR to even consider lending its support in the future.

Sincerely,
Charlie Blanco
Station Manager, KOBR-TV

NOTE: I have spoken with the author of this letter and verified the authenticity. Billy Wood

[mfish]

As I have said before - it appears the ball got dropped for this year's event (by the planners and organizers), and unfortunately, fingers get pointed in the process of transferring blame and accountability. I have also been fairly vocal about my disagreement with Renee's approach to management (or lack thereof) of the festival, but I respect her for coming onto this forum and offering up her version of how things have transpired over the past few years (with no surprises, by the way - the common denominator for failures and crises regarding the UFO Festival seems to be Julie Shuster and/or the IUFOMRC).

And based on conversations I have had with others over the past few years, it appears Renee's post is fairly accurate.

[saw]

It is not the same story that I got from some of the other 2007 committee members for the festival but I am not going to drag their names up.

As I have stated I don't want the UFO Museum "running the show" but without the museum would there be a show?

Folks from NYC are not coming down here to ride our ferris wheel. The city's advertising campaign on the East coast will only attract die hard UFOers unless the City can get a big "headliner" at least six months before the festival booked that they can advertise.

The folks on the committee have said how important it is to "fill" the motels. My take on this, if you fill all of the motels it would equal a crowd of about 3000 folks not the outlandish figures that have been quoted in the past.

If this festival is going to work the real crowds will come from the area. But what is Roswell going to offer that will bring the area crowds to town?

I talked to a manager of a motel yesterday that said he had ten cancellations the first two days. The folks that cancelled said that the whole thing is a "big joke". Some of them cancelled the first day that they got here according to the manager.

[Daisy]

the common denominator for failures and crises regarding the UFO Festival seems to be Julie Shuster and/or the IUFOMRC).

I don't know that to be true at all. It's my opinion that the Festival Committee has caused enough trouble all on their own and don't need Julie Shuster's help in the failure and crises department.

If the letter from Mr. Blanco is any indication of how business is conducted by the UFO Festival Committee, then the problem lies with the Committee people and has nothing to do with Ms. Shuster. We have to remember that the complaint letter is only one which we have heard about - how many more people were asked to be sponsors and were then blown off when the sponsorship didn't take place?

Gotta wonder what's really been going on with this Festival stuff...:smk3:

[noetorres]

I'd like to focus away from all the finger-pointing and infighting for a moment to give my "outsider's perspective" of Roswell's annual festival, and my thoughts on why it is urgent for the city to continue to fully support and fund it. An author and researcher from South Texas, it has been my privilege for the past four years to appear as a lecturer at the UFO Museum's annual program during the festival. Other than appearing as a speaker, I have no other ties with the museum or its management.

My first point is that the Roswell Incident is far greater than any festival or celebration. To millions, the Roswell case is the "holy grail" of UFOlogy and remains easily the world's best known UFO case. Earnest seekers of truth come to Roswell to study and understand what happened there and to ponder the mysteries of intelligence life elsewhere in the cosmos. Even those who doubt the veracity of 1947 can still enjoy the most remarkable UFO tale ever, in addition to expanding their view of life and the universe. It really is a win-win scenario for all visitors.

Second, Roswell is a wonderful town with friendly, caring citizens who go out of their way to welcome those of us visiting from elsewhere. In my four summers of visiting here, I've brought my family and friends, and all of them have had a wonderful time here, raving about their experience for months afterward. I am convinced that Roswell is easily one of America's great small towns - a message that I wholeheartedly convey to everyone I know. Truly, neither I nor my family has ever had a negative experience of any kind during our frequent visits to Roswell.

Third, seekers of truth and those curious about UFOs will continue to visit Roswell - festival or no festival, just as they did prior to 1995. But what is extra nice about having an annual festival is that all of those seekers and researchers can all be together at one time, network with each other, create friendships, share their insights with the public, and so on. Imagine my joy at meeting in Roswell the persons whose UFO work I had long admired, including Stanton Friedman, Bruce Maccabee, Tom Carey, Don Schmitt, Jesse Marcel, Jr., Dennis Balthaser, Peter Robbins, Jerry Pippin, Kathleen Marden, and many others.

Yes, there are other UFO conferences around the country throughout the year, but I think most researchers who have been to Roswell will agree that few others compare to the "magic" of being in Roswell. And out of this annual "magic" has arisen much more inspired insight into the Roswell Incident. As a direct result of interactions between researchers, new insights have been gained and new material has been produced over the years. I can affirm that a recent book I published about the Roswell Incident would never have seen the light of day were it not for the annual festival.

The community of Roswell is in the unique position to make this "magic" happen once a year during the UFO festival. It truly takes a community - not any one entity or group. For those of us who bring family and friends along with us, all the wonderful city-wide events and festivities greatly enhance what otherwise might be viewed by some members of our party as dull lectures and discussions. The role of the UFO Museum is important, and the role of the city's programs is also important. The two go hand-in-hand, and one without the other will not work.

In fact, other groups and programs also add to the diversity and magic - for example, Guy Malone's Christian-oriented programs. What a wonderful sight to behold - an entire town coming together to offer an experience unlike any other in the world. It's no wonder that the town of Roswell is listed as one of the "1,000 places to see before you die."

Something truly unique and magical happened here in '47 - and it happens again every year in July. People haven't stopped talking about the UFO case for over 60 years. The name of the town is synonymous with the incident. I know from talking to my fellow researchers that we are all hoping for the day (soon) when harmony will prevail among all parties involved in putting on a unified and diverse city-wide Roswell UFO Festival that appeals to all visitors, from hardcore UFO adherents to the family looking for an interesting stop along their Great American road trip.

To all our dear friends in Roswell, don't let inner divisions and strife cause you to lose the magical qualities of what you have to offer the world. Step outside the box for a moment and look at it not from a marketing standpoint (that will take care of itself if people love going there). The Roswell Festival is larger than all of us. Revel in the magic. I for one am a strong believer ... in Roswell's future. Please continue to make it happen for all of us - and for future generations.

Noe Torres

[Daisy]

Well said, Mr. Torres - thank you for your input.

[Serio Aldenevich]

I don't know any of these people. My visit to the UFO museum years ago left me disappointed. We're hearing words like rip-off, big joke and wacky. People are cancelling motel reservations and leaving town feeling cheated.

I'm sure there are also those who may have thoroughly enjoyed it and look forward to it every year.

Its not for me but if its decided by those who know about these things that its a good thing for Roswell to have this then I think we need to start over and not repeat what just happened. My concern is transparency about the actual cost to the city to include all the city employee costs.

The issue is what is best for Roswell and can we afford it.

[Daisy]

I agree with you completely. It's not my thing, either, but a lot of people really enjoy it, which is great!

It's very important to the city for this to be run by people who have absolutely no agenda except what's best for Roswell. I was thinking the UFO Museum would be good for this, but now I'm having doubts - if they could do it with the city's best interest in mind, rather than their own, I think it would be a good idea. Can they do that? I don't know - I don't know any of these people, either, other than meeting a couple of them once or twice.

I think it's a shame that people checked out of motel rooms after seeing what was here or canceled because they heard how bad it was. Something is wrong with this picture and I'm thinking we just don't know the whole story.

We need transparency in all of this, for sure!!

[Jim]

Those responsible should have no further management dutie re the festival. The words incompetence, arrogance, poor leadership, lack of coordination, etc, just stand out as you read what happened. Someone was in way over their head and obviously not supervised well,

Gov'mt job descriptions used to contain a last clause saying they'd do other duties as assigned. As directed by a superior while acting in their official duty capacity while rceiving full compensation from the city. To resign from part of your assigned duties is to resign from then all. City workers can't cherry pick some of their duties and refuse to do others they dislike or are too inept to do well.

This has been a learning experience for me. I think the city came off badlyand hopefully recognizes that and won't repeat it with the same people.

A gold star to the RDR if FINALLY they're going to do some in depth investigative reporting on what went wrong with the fetival. How much did this fiasco cost?

[Jim]

In fairness to those involved I withdraw words like incompetence, arrogance and inept. I apologize. Some people worked lomg hours on this and presumably did the best they could under the circumstances. Those words came to mind as I read preceding posts but I was not there to make such harsh judgements of anyone. They deserve the benefit of the doubt. It does seem to have been bungled. When you read the many posts you get some balance of that and differing perspectives. If its to continue we need to do a better job next time.

[kralspaces]

You will never get the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth from anyone about this festival, because there is no one truth. You will get their individual experiences, observations and opinions based on their personal expectations. It reminds me of the days when I hauled my kids all over the western United States in the RV. We must have visited every tourist stop (or trap) there was and we had many disappointments based on what we read about it and our ‘set’ expectation. Eventually, we lowered those expectations and we started to have a lot more fun. Roswell’s UFO Festival is a four day event with many different activities to muse the entire family (noted: Noe Torres).

Someone stated that what we need to do is start all over. Is that possible? You will see soon enough. The Mayor has stated several times in the paper that he wanted to form a task force after this year’s festival to determine alternative solutions for the future of the festival. I would encourage everyone who has had personal involvement with the last 5 festivals to step forward and offer their concerns and recommendations.

My one and only recommendation is to have a full time paid director for the festival that would be supported by volunteers through a 501c3 festival foundation to plan out the entire 4 day event over the 12 months between each festival. This should insure that our visitors get the best possible show in the universe. I made that recommendation to Mayor LaGrone back in 2006 (after that disaster) and he came back with a solution of part time city employee coordinators. I think we have already proven over the last 10 years that a part time effort is not enough, whether it is conducted by the museum or the city. The key to my recommendation is finding the ‘right’ person.

[saw]

Source KOB.com. 7/9/10 7:21A

"City Council members were outspoken in the media about how city money was spent on the festival and wanted to scrutinze next year's funding to make sure the city was getting the maximum retlurn on investment."

"As those comments got out, Roach fired emails to the Mayor warning him that such comments and actions by city council members made the city look "idiotic" ."

[Alfdom]

The City money should be for additional police staff, street crews for traffic control for the parade, concerts and firework safety. The only other money should be from the lodger's tax. The UFO festival should be a private venture.

[Serio Aldenevich]

Who is Mrs. Roach? Is she some high ranking highly paid city employee who apparently has time to fire off memos to us and and the council on our nickel. Or is she doing that at home during her own time?

Idiotic is a word some people already use to describe the festival. We are #4 of a natonal survey for the wackiest things to do on Independence Day.

It's a national holiday to celebrate our independence from Britain and all the sacrifices that were done to make that happen. It's a patriotic holiday.
We celebrate it in Roswell with this UFO green alien stuff. What's the link between the real purpose of the holiday and that? Does it somehow honor hose who made Independence Day possible? Does it teach our kids about an historic moment in our country's history? Or is it just a frivolous waste of city time and money that makes people go away disappointed thinking we're a joke?

Who is Mrs. Roach's supervisor? She seems like an expensive loose cannon.
Who in city hall is responsible for telling Mrs. Roach to proceed with this event and leave everything up to her?

[kralspaces]

Who in city hall is responsible for telling Mrs. Roach to proceed with this event and leave everything up to her?

The Mayors (LaGrone, then Jurney) and the 'buck' should stop there.

[mfish]

Serio - Had the "alleged" UFO crash happened in August, or May, or January, or any other month - THAT is when the UFO festival would take place. Just so happens it "happened" in early July. So that's when the festival takes place.

In order to make sure all focus on our nation's independence was not lost in the shuffle, the late Mike Satterfield worked very hard to see to it that there would indeed be an annual celebration for the 4th of July in Roswell as well. The two "events" intertwine, giving those who do come to Roswell for the UFO stuff an opportunity to enjoy a fireworks show and a salute to the veterans as well.

[pdc]

Andrew Cone's story this morning ("More than saucers fly after festival (http://www.roswell-record.com/article/more_than_saucers_fly_after_festival071110?id=1590 43)") let's the major player's speak for themselves...

... IMNSHO, Julie Shuster, in her own words, reveals herself to be an arrogant, self-serving businesswoman who puts her interests above all others.
“My father and Glenn Dennis put Roswell on the map when they created the museum,” she said. “Before that time, we did not even have a tourist industry.”
.................................................. ......................................

“Sam said the city could do it bigger and better,” Shuster said. “It got real ugly and Sam screamed at me numerous times.”
.................................................. .....................................

“The city has run the event into the ground for the past four years and it’s pathetic that they are stabbing the business that put Roswell on the map in the back.”


The story about Shuster returning the free tickets to the Starship concert indict her as an uncooperative (edited by Daisy) whetehr the allegation tof destroying those tickets is accepted or not....

Whatever anyone thinks about Ms. Roach (whom I have never met, and with whom I have found no fault, in spite of the negative commentary in this thread), her job is gonna be very difficult to fill, given the exposure of the negative working environment and open conflict among the key players....

[pdc]

I want to express my support and endorsement for the RDR Editorial this morning - UFO Festival (http://www.roswell-record.com/article/ufo_festival071010?id=159034)

Specifically:
It’s our hope the city government will continue to support festival activities. We also hope the city will set its level of funding based on the value of Roswell’s year-round tourism business and not merely on the financial figures of the first week in July. While the festival serves as flashy annual reminder of the Roswell Incident, tourists visit our city in smaller, but constant, numbers all year.
I think the editorial expresses exactly the right perspective

IMNSHO, short-sighted, dollars/cents calculations of the ROI on City involvement is wrong-headed in so many ways....

[mfish]

“My father and Glenn Dennis put Roswell on the map when they created the museum,” she said. “Before that time, we did not even have a tourist industry.”

Wow.

I remember visiting with Walter Haut at the first UFO MUseum on 4th & Main - it was a very modest museum at that time. Walter envisioned having a remote controlled UFO on a high wire that ran diagonally from the Southeast corner of the intersection to the Northwest corner, and the flashing, whirling UFO would run that wire back and forth across Main Street... It was my perspective that he understood the economic value of the rekindling of UFOmania to Roswell.

And IMHO, Ms. Shuster. The alleged crash in the New Mexico desert is what put Roswell on the map. From a tourism perspective, at least. Had it not been Walter Haut and Glenn Dennis that started to capitalize on the incident and recognize the economics of said capitalization, someone else would have eventually.

Her comment says volumes.

[cgoode]

My one and only recommendation is to have a full time paid director for the festival that would be supported by volunteers through a 501c3 festival foundation to plan out the entire 4 day event over the 12 months between each festival. This should insure that our visitors get the best possible show in the universe. I made that recommendation to Mayor LaGrone back in 2006 (after that disaster) and he came back with a solution of part time city employee coordinators. I think we have already proven over the last 10 years that a part time effort is not enough, whether it is conducted by the museum or the city. The key to my recommendation is finding the ‘right’ person.

This is an excellent suggestion Marty, and you're right that "part-time" is not enough. This was discussed quite a bit prior to the 2007 UFO Festival, once Renee and Zach - who were then sharing the responsibilities - realized that it is indeed a full-time job all by itself. (THIS is the load Renee has been carrying all these years since btw - what all parties in the know believe should be a full-time job, in addition to her paid full-time job.)

The best and most obvious solution is to either set up a new 501c3 to handle it all and hire/appoint someone to do so, or create a new City position of "UFO Festival Co-ordinator" and make it their full-time job - because it is one! I'm already getting media and tourist e-mails asking about 2011. Renee and Zach and I bandied the idea around of bringing me in to do just that in 2007, but I met (who would become) my wife at the 2007 Festival, and took myself out of involvement in 2008 (aka "the biblical year off from the battle), did not organize a 2008 conference, and haven't discussed this position with anyone since.

I am not now a candidate for such a position btw. While I do still need to thank Mike Fisher for his earlier vote of confidence, my experience is that even my part-time involvement with the UFO Festival committee detracts from my ability to put together conferences (like the big ones in 2004, 2007, 2009, and even this years one-day event) and time needed write the lectures I give, the next book which I still haven't, etc. Given my published views on the topic(s) tho, it's sheer irony that I would even be considered by anyone for such a position, ever. I'm not going to "get paid" for promoting aliens when all of my other work is dismantling certain related belief systems. I'd be more inclined to promote White Sands actually, or the many great things about Roswell of interest to tourists, like the RMAC, The Anderson Museum, Goddard, etc. Just shows you what a sense of humor God must have. There's another reason I can't take the job which I'll have to wait to disclose, I just want to state that my support for creating such a job is not related to any desire I have to take it.

My only concerns with a separate 501c3 are
1) The salary would need to be at least $35,000 per year, based on the skill sets required for the position, and the time that would need to be put into doing it well. Where is that going to come from? It can't come from tax lodgers funding (unless a successful argument is made that that position IS part of the marketing) but how much would that leave .. or, how would citizens feel knowing the salary came from their real tax dollars, when police, teachers, etc, etc, need raises. How would sponsors feel, and would they be as keen to donate?

2) is the lack of accountability which The City involvement has built-in. Even tho the "org" is non-profit and records are supposed to be public, their decisions are still ultimately their right to make. The top people in it often do get paid, and human nature will dictate that decisions are made based on how to benefit themselves and the organization more so than based on what's good for the people and city. City appointees can be removed by superiors (as Renee detailed) if their performance, motivations, or results deem necessary; and certain positions can get voted out by the people. As you said here, finding the "right" person would be the key, and hard. Do we really need a megalomaniac with no accountability who can't be removed no matter how people feel about him/her running the UFO Festival? Oh, wait ...

[cgoode]

[I]

And IMHO, Ms. Shuster. The alleged crash in the New Mexico desert is what put Roswell on the map. From a tourism perspective, at least. Had it not been Walter Haut and Glenn Dennis that started to capitalize on the incident and recognize the economics of said capitalization, someone else would have eventually.

Her comment says volumes.

Excellent point Dude. I've always wanted to be quoted in the paper saying that "Julie did not crash the saucer in 1947, she did not find it, and she does not own it. It's the ROSWELL ufo crash, known world-wide as the ROSWELL Incident, and the ROSWELL ufo festival ..." Point being, the phenomena belongs to the people of Roswell, not any one individual, organization or entity.

And in exactly what way is The City honoring Walter Haut with a photo and historical bio at the RCVB back-stabbing or exploiting, at least any more than what already happens at 109 N Main? Being honored by The City to Haut for getting the story out and putting Roswell on the map (cough, cough) is a natural honor to come from a municipality. Besides, it wasn't "the City" or Renee that recommended him for the UFO Hall of Fame, it was a non-governmental committee member, and was voted on by the committee against other suggested/considered people. Just figured that needed to be known given her expressed response.

[saw]

The committee chairman was a position that was appointed by the mayor (Sam). The committee charman was a volunteer and not an employee of the city. At least that is the way it started. Since the committee is not a formal part of the city the chairman is not under the contol of anyone in the city other than the mayor who I suppose could un-appoint her. They are in same position as the chairman of the cemetary committee.

As far as having a full time director I don't think it is necessary but if a private non profit group took over that would be their decision.

I have been a part of some much larger projects than the festival and we never had a full time director. I think that an individual who has had some experiance in this sort of thing could be consulted for advice and maybe paid for two or three months mainly getting sponsors on board. The $15,000 last year and the $10,000 that was paid to a marketing consultant this year would be more than enough.

Roswell has plenty of talent to make this festival work without a high dollar full time consultant. Other than some lodgers tax bucks for advertising the city should get out of the festival ASAP.

Again, we are not going to attract NYC visitors to come ride our ferris wheel they are going to come because of the museum and then they might ride the ferris wheel.

[TEA]

There was a good editorial in the RDR this morning that I thought was spot on - IMHO. http://www.roswell-record.com/article/ufo_festival050110?id=126015 for those who don’t mind signing on.

This will be Rene Roach's last year to coordinate the City activities in this year’s festival (already in the budget, but we really don't need to spend it). That, I know is a fact jack, right from the source. The Mayor has stated that he would like to see a private organization handle the festival, with financial help from the City Government. It looks like the entire festival may be headed back to the UFO Museum again. Many on this forum should appreciate that. why should anyone be excited about losing the best person for the job. The chances of a successful festival for next year are almost nil, thanks to the ufo Julie and all the other narrow minded busy bodies who sit around and do nothing but complain and find fault with people who voluteer their time and money because they really do love Roswell.

[Daisy]

The chances of a successful festival for next year are almost nil,

I disagree - no one is indispensable, no matter how much we would like to believe we are. I'm quite sure a replacement for Ms. Roach will be found and, if the right person is chosen, the Festival will do just fine, maybe even better.

We'll just have to see how it all shakes out...

[shotgun]

I disagree - no one is indispensable, no matter how much we would like to believe we are. I'm quite sure a replacement for Ms. Roach will be found and, if the right person is chosen, the Festival will do just fine, maybe even better.

We'll just have to see how it all shakes out...

Daisy..........right on! It's time to move this event forward with people who believe in the possibilies in developing this event to a higher standard and with a person who can work with others.:shoot:

[Jim]

Did I read here that Mrs. Roach has an assistant? Another city employee?How many others in her kingdom?

[Ironhorse]

The committee chairman was a position that was appointed by the mayor (Sam). The committee charman was a volunteer and not an employee of the city. At least that is the way it started. Since the committee is not a formal part of the city the chairman is not under the contol of anyone in the city other than the mayor who I suppose could un-appoint her. They are in same position as the chairman of the cemetary committee.

As far as having a full time director I don't think it is necessary but if a private non profit group took over that would be their decision.

I have been a part of some much larger projects than the festival and we never had a full time director. I think that an individual who has had some experiance in this sort of thing could be consulted for advice and maybe paid for two or three months mainly getting sponsors on board. The $15,000 last year and the $10,000 that was paid to a marketing consultant this year would be more than enough.

Roswell has plenty of talent to make this festival work without a high dollar full time consultant. Other than some lodgers tax bucks for advertising the city should get out of the festival ASAP.

Again, we are not going to attract NYC visitors to come ride our ferris wheel they are going to come because of the museum and then they might ride the ferris wheel.

Saw and/or Arville, since you know so much and have experience, do I hear you want to step up to the plate and volunteer to take on the UFO festival ?

Maybe you just want to be an armchair complainer about other people trying to do the job? Talk is cheap, man roll up your sleves and get in the mix of working the event!

[oladcock]

"Maybe you just want to be an armchair complainer about other people trying to do the job? Talk is cheap, man roll up your sleves and get in the mix of working the event!"

I didn't see and "complaints", just sage/wise advice/observations. Saw filling us in on what has been done in the past might help prevent past mistakes being repeated....O.L.

[Jim]

Since taxpayer money is being used for the festival, as yet an unknown amount in city employee salaries (overtime?) equipment, and what percentage of the total cost that represents, Roswell citizens have a right to either compliment or complain about the festival. It reflects on the city's reputation, good or bad. Those who like it and support it are free to volunteer or not. Public input, pro or con, should not be stifled.

It's a local controversy for several reasons. The City is deeply involved. It's a legitimate topic for discussion.

[shotgun]

Huh, If it is correct Renee Roach is a city employee on a high salary, how does she resign from a city committee which host a city event, paid with city money and not resign from her job? This committee and chairperson should have a report of the total extra man hours other city employees must work.

This could be a major event in Roswell that will in time if run correctly can generate some good revenue.

A good point to think about, if we have so many complaints, join in the front of the line, become part of the solution for success and volunteer some time:shoot:

[oladcock]

I've got an idea that may go over well for the festival and willing to volunteer my time. As soon as I figure out who's going to run the show, I'll bounce it off them......O.L.

[shotgun]

Yep, I better be willing to do the same and volunteer my time and effort.:shoot:

Think we can talk Mfish into coming back for the event........... the fish sure put alot into getting this event started? Mfish is a good person!

[saw]

Ironhorse, I think that I have earned my stripes and my retirement after over 20 years of civic activity, some of which I will list:

1. Scoutmaster, actively engaged in Scouting for over a decade.

2. Member, board member, treasurer, vice president, and president of one of the largest and most active civic clubs in NM at that time.

3. Commitee member, board member, co-chairman, chairman of the one of the largest events in NM at that time. This event which took place once a year had an average PAID ATTENTANCE of 30,000 folks. It did not cost the city one dime. Proceeds (over $100,000.00) from this event were spent on local projects, scholarships, support of the Boy Scouts, The Boy's Club, etc.

4. Sub-committee co-chairman of the international soaring meet that hosted some twenty nations soaring teams from around the world which competed for the titles of world championship. This meet was to be held in Argentina and when the Granada war come about and the International Soaring Society was looking elsewhere to hold the competition, a group of us contacted them and said we would like a shot at it. To make a long story short, in a very short time we put the "show" together which meant first of all to provide housing for over a thousand people including crew members. Besides booking all of the motel rooms we could, arranging for rooms in private residences, building a tent city, and going to Houston and moving mobile bunk houses to the site. Of course all of these on site facilities required utilities, roads, etc. The most fun was building a beer garden which Budweiser and Coors sponsored. The housing was my and my co-chairman's part of the project. This project did not cost the city one dime.

Other committees provided eating facilities, tow planes and pilots, judges, ground crews, etc. We did this all in three months and there was not a single dollar paid out for consultants, executive chairman, etc. Not only did some of the committee members donate their time, but also provided crews from their companies at no cost to get this project done.

The International Soaring Society was so impressed with what they they saw in our city that they located the headquarters for their official magazine to our city, and built a very impressive building at the site of the soaring meet.

So Ironhorse when you get your 20 years in with some worthwhile projects under your belt, come back to me and we will co-chair the festival and we will do it without any city funds.

[Ironhorse]

When and where did all this history take place? Why wait for what, just don't talk about what you did in the past, get the show on the road and start doing it now.

With all your great past experience, looks like the right time for you to make new history and show the people of Roswell your stuff.

[Serio Aldenevich]

Ironhorse: I see a native American describing a train.

Some of us like those trains have traveled many miles in our lives already. We have a long trail of volunteerism behind us. Some may no longer be physically able to do that while others simply have no interest in it beyond the cost to the city. We're still interested in how efficiently our tax dollars are spent. Regardless of age or infirmity it's still being done on our nickel.

[Lebo]

Ironhorse, if you're so hot to trot on all of this, why don't YOU "get the show on the road and start doing it now"?!

You're obviously in the Ms. Renee fan club, so maybe you could enlighten us as to how she was strictly a volunteer in all of this and how she can find it acceptable to resign while splashing what appears to be a cat fight with Julie Schuster all over the media. Ms. Schuster can do what she wants as she is a private business person. Ms. Renee on the other hand is a city employee and being paid with our tax dollars while making a fool of herself and the City on the front page of the newspaper. Since she was a volunteer on this project, do we just assume that she accomplished whatever it was that she accomplished on the UFO Festival strictly on her own time? Everything she did was done before 8:00am and after 5:00pm M-F, and of course on weekends? If that's not the case and Ms. Renee did in fact do whatever she did on the UFO Festival during business hours, then does the City get to deduct a portion of her bloated salary since she has resigned that part of her position? I think taxpayers would be interested in knowing the answers to these questions and you give the impression you are in the know.

[Ironhorse]

Ironhorse, if you're so hot to trot on all of this, why don't YOU "get the show on the road and start doing it now"?!

You're obviously in the Ms. Renee fan club, so maybe you could enlighten us as to how she was strictly a volunteer in all of this and how she can find it acceptable to resign while splashing what appears to be a cat fight with Julie Schuster all over the media. Ms. Schuster can do what she wants as she is a private business person. Ms. Renee on the other hand is a city employee and being paid with our tax dollars while making a fool of herself and the City on the front page of the newspaper. Since she was a volunteer on this project, do we just assume that she accomplished whatever it was that she accomplished on the UFO Festival strictly on her own time? Everything she did was done before 8:00am and after 5:00pm M-F, and of course on weekends? If that's not the case and Ms. Renee did in fact do whatever she did on the UFO Festival during business hours, then does the City get to deduct a portion of her bloated salary since she has resigned that part of her position? I think taxpayers would be interested in knowing the answers to these questions and you give the impression you are in the know.

lebo your arrows are in the wrong direction, an old saying; every time a man points a finger to another person, four fingers come back at him.
I never met, and don't know the Roach lady, if she's a paid employee of the city, maybe she better complete her resignation and resign from her city job?

Warriors of all ages can volunteer at different levels from leadership to production. I never put my chief feathers on to tell everyone how much I know. I think we need more warriors and fewer chiefs, maybe a new chief who can lead better.

[Lebo]

lebo your arrows are in the wrong direction,

They were pointed back in the direction from which they came, Chief Ironhorse. Chief Saw seems to have more than earned his feathers, and apparently devotes many hours to this forum researching facts to keep the members informed on different issues. It is wisdom to listen to your elders and absorb imparted knowledge. I'd say that Chief Saw's research time counts as community involvement. From what I've observed, Chief Saw has seen many many moons and is an excellent example of admirable intellectual stamina at a ripe age.

I never met, and don't know the Roach lady, if she's a paid employee of the city, maybe she better complete her resignation and resign from her city job?Stupendous idea!!

I think we need more warriors and fewer chiefs, maybe a new chief who can lead better.
I nominate you for UFO Festival chief.

[pdc]

I just don't get it.

A city employee accepts an invitation from the mayor to perform a big volunteer job requiring an extensive time commitment above-and-beyond her paid role; she apparently performs this job to the satisfaction of her superiors and other committee members for several years; the performance of the event appears by most accounts to consistently grow during her tenure; she encounters some rookie mistakes from a newly-elected mayor/council; the difficulty of working with the major business (UFO Museum) related to the event is documented; and she resigns aftr the event, allowing more than adequate time to locate a replacement (and making herself fully available to facilitate continuity....

I really haven't seen any substantiated allegations of misfeasance or malfeasance on her part - have I missed something???

... and some folks around here are condemning her and wishing she'd resign her job with the city, too.

I just don't get it. This woman should be receiving thanks and congratulations! Even if one thinks a change of direction is called for, she appears to have fulfilled her mission to the best of her abilities.....

[mfish]

Pdc, I have to agree with just about everything you just wrote. Taking on any event like this is a thankless job for the most part - having to deal with contrary, clueless and delusional personalities is the toughest part, too.

BUT - Here's the statement I really agree with: she appears to have fulfilled her mission to the best of her abilities.....

[mfish]

The gift shop at this motel in Rachel, NV rivals some in Roswell. And, it looks like rachel, NV might have a better handle on this than Roswell, too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7EYJej3PNc

[kralspaces]

I vote Pat for Alien Chief. It looks like her got this all done with a committee of 98. At least her knows where Area 51 is located. No BS!

[Belkin]

Who is Alien Chief Pat?