The General McChrystal Saga

[Daisy]

Here's a long but interesting article on a possible scenario of the General McChrystal story. I had been confused about how and why a GENERAL would allow himself to be taped saying the things he said about Obama. This may be the explanation and was certainly one that I hadn't thought of...

The General and the Community Organizer (http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/id.6581/pub_detail.asp)

[oladcock]

Yep, I agree 100%..Add to that for those whose never been in the military, if you know things are AFU and the chain of command is not responsive, it leaves you no choice. A person of good conscience does not blindly follow orders. I have no doubt as well that state dept folks were undermining McCrystals progress with the Afghan government at every turn. They are either incompetent at every level or have deeper far reaching goals they don't want exposed.

I've got friends over there and the ROE was BS. Petrias (sp?) has got Obama by the short hairs and will be able to do anything he wants and you can bet he told him if he was going to take the job, this, this, and this is going to happen. The ROE was one I'm sure. Obama and his cast of clowns may know how to play Chicago politics but the military can play hardball as well, and will...O.L.

[pdc]

I find both the premises and reasoning the writer's hypothesizes that McCrystal employed to be idiotic.

First of all, McCrystal, and most of his staff voted for Obama, and are themselves liberals - they supported Obama before he was even elected!

Second, the ROE reportedly that McCrystal might have been objecting to are integral to the strategy being employed - the counterinsurgency strategy is similar, if not the same in terms of the ROE, to that devised and deployed by Petraeus in Iraq

Third, even if McCrystal disagreed with the ROE, to ascribe an intentionally passive-agressive and manipulative approach, as does the author, is to characterize McCrystal as dishonorable and dishonest. It's an out-and-out insult to characterize this episode as such a b. s. endeavor

But, I guess some folks will stretch their interpretations of reality beyond the pale is it offers an opportunity to mount a criticism of Obama.

Virtually all former military leaders, and current political leaders, that I have seen on each of the three cable news networks, whether liberal or conservative, have been heavily critical of the behavior and demeanor of McCrystal and his staff.

BTW, both Obama and Petraeus have emphatically reinforced the current strategy, including the ROE - there is no reason to doubt either of them. If there is any prominent change in implementation, it is much more likely to be in how Petraeus collaborates with the non-military folks that are a part of the mission, and the interface and expectations employed with the Afghanistan government....

[Daisy]

I find both the premises and reasoning the writer's hypothesizes that McCrystal employed to be idiotic.

Now how'd I know you would? ;)

Okay, then, how do you explain the how and why behind McChrystal saying those things to a reporter from the Rolling Stones mag. He just wanted to end a very successful career the hard way? He was drunk and not in control of himself? He's a stupid man?

If you have a better explanation, I'm game!

[oladcock]

"But, I guess some folks will stretch their interpretations of reality beyond the pale is it offers an opportunity to mount a criticism of Obama."


The reality is 90+% thinks he's a jackass and don't trust him. He'll only be successful if the senior leadership wants him to be.....O.L.

[samsara]

Eh him being who he is, he shouldnt have said any of that stuff regardless of being recorded or not. He knew the repercussions and its his own fault.

[oladcock]

"He knew the repercussions and its his own fault."

Of course he knew. Knowing that the question is why?.....O.L.

[pdc]

Now how'd I know you would? ;)

Okay, then, how do you explain the how and why behind McChrystal saying those things to a reporter from the Rolling Stones mag. He just wanted to end a very successful career the hard way? He was drunk and not in control of himself? He's a stupid man?

If you have a better explanation, I'm game!

Actually, I believe only one specific quote was attributed to McCrystal; the rest were from his aides....

But, "poor judgment", "arrogant" and "drunk" have been widely used to explain the behavior, and I see no reason to get more convoluted than that - unless and/or until some specific reason to believe otherwise is brought forth....

Counterinsurgency requires equal complements of military and diplomatic skills, and maybe he and his team were just not up to the latter....

[Jim]

I don't know what motivated Gen. McChrystal and his staff (a 4 star has a large staff so I assume not all of them were there or involved) to say that in front of a reporter. I don't know how any of them voted. It's none of my business.

I'm deciphering Oladcock's "AFU". I think I have that one solved. Still working on ROE.

My opinion is that Gen. McChrystal is a warrior supreme with a distinguished military career. I'm sorry his career ended this way but a 4 star with his years of service gets a good retirement. Better this way than an IED.

My humble experience with the military incl being on a MG's staff makes me respect those who make it to general officer rank perhaps with few exceptions. I'd make the cutoff at 06 rank. If you get beyond that you usually are pretty sharp. Gen. Petraeus and McChrystal make me proud to be an American and I salute them both.

[oladcock]

Jim, "Still working on ROE." Rules of engagement....They really got their hands tied over there, or at least did.

"My humble experience with the military incl being on a MG's staff makes me respect those who make it to general officer rank perhaps with few exceptions. I'd make the cutoff at 06 rank. If you get beyond that you usually are pretty sharp. Gen. Petraeus and McChrystal make me proud to be an American and I salute them both."

Yep, most are pretty good but some can sure pour on the politics depending on where they are in their career and where they want to go....O.L.

[Jim]

True, you have to factor in those who have high ranking "godfathers" who pull them up by their bootstraps.

[mfish]

McChrystal's replacement, Petraeus, has prostate cancer ... one has to wonder what impact, if any - that'll have on a smooth transfer of power... OH - and of course, all the Libs who called Petraeus a bunch of names will have to back-pedal, now that's he's Obama's hand-picked successor ..

[pdc]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I can tell, those who called Petraeus names are the same folks who have opposed the current (Obama/McCrystal/Petraeus) policy....

[Jim]

I'm sure Gen. Patreaus is getting good medical treatment and follow-up for his PCa. It shouldn't impact his command.

[Serio Aldenevich]

general officers do not get drunk with the troops or reporters. They are taught to be nice,neat, sweet and discreet

[Daisy]

I agree - it most likely wasn't an accidental 'slip'. In general (no pun intended), stupid men don't rise to the rank of General.

[Jim]

True Daisy. People who reach general office rank are usually pretty sharp. You don't often see them hanging around O Clubs getting smashed. They show up for receptions for newly assigned officers. Usually the best parking spot by the club is reserved for the CG and CO. At Fort Huachucua that parking spot was reserved for any 2nd lt.

Being the CG in Afghanistan must be a very stressful job. I don't blame then for having a beer and some down time with staff. It was poor judgement to allow subordinates to make those remarks in front of a reporter.

I recall one major general who went to prison after he retired for what he did while on active duty. Got in trouble in prison for selling seconds on the chow line. Last I heard he was a chimney sweeper. He's an exception.

We had a one star commanding WSMR. They fired a missile from Blanding, Utah to impack on WSMR. It overshot WSMR and the destruct officer chose not to destroy it over populated El Paso. It went into Mexico with a classified warhead. Can you imagine the general being told that and seeing his career going down the tubes because of it? There goes a SIRs (serious incident report) to TECOM, USAMC and right up to DA. We called that a "flap". It's alittle awkward to tell Mexico that we accidently fired a missile into their country and would like it back. But we got it back.

Subic Bay Navy Base in the Philippines had many Navy ships coming and going. The people at the O Club kept changing except for those stationed there. They still had happy hours with 10 cent beer then. The Commanding Admiral would come down and shake every persons hand at the bar. He looked very dashing in his starched whites.

[mfish]

BUT - never foget that "military intelligence" is one of the original oxymorons.

[Jim]

Have you ever had any experience in MI, OSI, NIS, Coast Guard Intelligence, or the DIA?

[pdc]

Have you ever had any experience in MI, OSI, NIS, Coast Guard Intelligence, or the DIA?

Have you ever heard of Pearl Harbor, the Tet Offensive, 9/11, the Iraq/Al Quaeda connection or WMD in Iraq??? **laugh**

[mfish]

PDC - you forgot the Bay of Pigs ...

[Jim]

Valid criticisms. The same ONI people at Pearl broke the Japanese code resulting in our victory at Midway. Hits and misses. We hear about the failures but not always the successes.

There are some brave intelligent people serving in our various military intelligence agencies.